Advice on the best ~27’er for Great Lakes Sailing

[fred4936]

I would nominate the Tartan 27. Our last boat was a 27-2, and we loved it! We still do, the new owner keeps her not far from us. Anyway, they are getting up there in years, since they were last built in 1980, but good ones are out there. Very seaworthy, safe, and comfortable. Can be had for not a lot of money.

[jooa]

I sail a CS27 on the Salish Sea and here are a few or my observations re: some of the above mentioned boats, boats owned by my sailing buddies. Observations are in no particular order.

The CS27 has a rounder hull form than the Catalina 27, Mirage 26 and Aloha 28. These boats tend to lock in at a heel angle of about 15 degree and takes a bit more breeze to knock them beyond that 15 degrees. The CS27, with it's rounder hull form, tends to lock in at 20 degrees and with a big puff can easily be knocked over to 30 degrees heel, I have even had the boat heel to 40 degrees in a big gust. All the above boats feel like decent sailing boats. the CS27 does point quite close to the wind (5'-2" draft). Displacement of CS27 is about 2000 lbs more compared to the Catalina 27, this is reflected in it's scantlings. The CS27 is a more robust vessel and built like a tank. The saloon of the Catalina 27 and Aloha 28 seem to be a bit roomier, which I think is due to stowage layout, both the CS27 and Aloha 28 have very nice woodwork/cabinetry. The CS27 carries about 40 litre of diesel, which is acceptable, but only carries 60 litres of water, which I feel is on the short side as I like to spend time at anchor. The CS27 does not have an anchor locker!!! This adds a lot more work to anchoring!!! I built an anchor locker into my CS27. Side decks on the Catalina 27, Mirage 26, and Aloha28 are much wider allowing easier forward movement on the deck. The side decks on the CS27 are narrow so forward movement is over the cabin top, not a huge problem but wider side decks are a bonus. The Yanmar YSB8 diesel on the CS27 is a bit under powered, 10-12 hp would be nicer, but I must admit the YSB8 has served me well. The CS27's were prone to hull blisters. The CS27 has huge cockpit lockers but stowage down below is only adequate. I have been caught out in a Force 9 gale (42kts) for 7 hours and not once did I feel the CS27 was in danger, she brought me home safely. I'm not crazy about the shape of the cockpit on the CS27, the pinched in stern of the IOR design means the cockpit seating also curves in aft, but still roomy enough to nap on. The pinched in stern also means the CS27 has less buoyancy aft.

I have had my CS27 for 14 years now and despite some of the negatives I have sighted, the boat is exceptionally built and I wouldn't give it up for another of the same size, she has safely delivered me through a handful of gales and at 44 years of age is still a beauty.

Any of the boats you are looking at will have their flaws but if you take care of your boat, it will take care of you.

[hamburking]

jooa makes some excellent points about the CS27. Its an excellent boat, capable of taking you to the Caribbean and back.

But a C&C27 feels twice as big. Bigger cockpit, bigger below. I've been out in big blows and huge waves on the C&C27 and C&C25. No problems. But I would not take one to the Caribbean.

I really like the CS27, but I feel squished when I am aboard. I love the yanmar and the seaworthiness of the CS27...especially if you can find the shoal draft model with tiller (a wheel makes the small cockpit feel even smaller).

What about crew? Do you have kids? Sailing solo or as a couple? Bringing some friends? Quarter berths and pilot berths are excellent both for sleeping and storage, and hard to find on smaller boats. Ask yourself where everyone is going to sleep...and no, floor and cockpit are not good answers. Also, where will you keep the dinghy? ...but that's a whole nother thread...LOL!!!

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

- How common is rot of cored deck/hulls, leading to softening and eventual major repairs? I hear this is something to worry about with the Niagaras.

Very, in 30+ year old boats, especially decks. The questions is "how much?". I wound up scrapping out a 27' Cherubini Hunter because the rot in the deck and cabin top wasn't worth the time, effort, and expense to fix - even if I did the labor. Because of this, I am extremely wary of balsa cored hulls and personally wouldn't touch one. Foam cored might be OK

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

- How much will the difference in draft (ie. between 4-5’) matter when navigating shoaly channels and trying to get into anchorages?

One foot of draft doesn't sound like much, but it can make a big difference in your cruising range. If you're a 'gunk holer' you'll want the shoal draft so you can get into and explore places others can't go. If you're less adventurous, a 'harbor hopper', then a deeper draft is fine. A shoal keel doesn't point as well, but cruisers aren't racers, so they don't usually care. Shoal draft also tend to heel more and can feel quite tender. But once they "set their shoulder" they're fine.

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

-And how much will displacement matter on a typical GL blow?

None at all whatsoever. If you're caught out in a 'typical' GL blow, frankly? You're screwed. You must pay attention to forecasts, if the weather is going to turn, and making your next destination is 'iffy', don't go out. That said, a heavier boat is always going to be more comfortable in a squall, comfortable being a relative term. I've been aboard a 49', 13 ton displ, schooner, and been knocked down in a squall. That said, it was 'our' (the crew's) fault. We were racing under full kit and waited too long to shorten sail. We almost lost the boat; it was one of the scariest moments of my life.

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

- How big a difference is there between the performance, reliability, and lifespan between gas and diesel inboards?

Generally speaking, a diesel will outlive a gas engine, all other factors being equal (maintenance, use, etc.). Diesels will generally expand your cruising range as they are more economical - burn less fuel per hour over a given distance. Again, important to a gunk holer but not necessarily to a harbor hopper. Gas carries the risk of increased volatility and you must be sure to ventilate the engine compartment before starting, or you could have a boat that goes BOOM! The discontinued OMC Saildrive units are 2-cycle; you have to mix gas with the oil. Parts are getting hard to find because of their age. Qualify this as hearsay - but their most renowned 'qualities' seem to be: they smoke, they stink in a tailwind and they're notoriously unreliable.

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

- I don’t see a huge difference in deck/cockpit and cabin layouts between them

In older boats there isn't. Newer boats have put double berths under the cockpit, moved the head aft opposite the galley and gone to an open concept. All are attempts to make the boat seem bigger. But IMO, most traditional layouts are fine for a couple and 2-3 children.

CS 27 for $2,500.
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1546181071

CAVEAT EMPTOR!


G

[wannacat]

The C&C27-3 and 4's will outsail all mentioned and is in a tie with the Niagara 26 speed wise. However, the C&C has double the room and the Niagara's made a few with a wheel I think but really rare. So depends there what your after . C&C27's draw 4ft 6in. Not an issue with Lake Ontario or the Bahamas if that's your future. Excellent, easily handled boat even in heavy air as they carry a small aspect main, so make sure your have a furling jib and you can easily dial down the horsepower in a blow. Cockpit has the most room of all mentioned and below decks also. Almost 1000 made so lots of parts and advice available out there. Been beating ours up for 43 years and she's still floating and going fast!

[J.Marsh]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the great responses! Lots to think about there.

Just to answer some of the questions out there....

I’m not tied to exactly 27’, it’s just the size that seems about right for the type of sailing we plan to do, and budget. Really am looking at anything between 25-32’ and hoping to spend under <$10k. I’m willing to go a bit higher if it’s a perfect boat, but also looking for cheaper alternatives if all the fundamental stuff is there and can fix up/add to it over time.

We live in Sudbury, ON, so Georgian Bay, Lake Huron, North Channel are the main cruising grounds, but really want to be able to explore the whole GL system over the years. As pointed out, the rocky coastline and archipelagos are where the shallow draft comes in.

We’re planning to sail different loops for a couple weeks at a time, rather than spend the entire summer cruising (maybe when we’re retired). Planning to anchor up in secluded bays, camp, hike, and swim. We don’t mind stopping in at ports every few days, or bringing extra water jugs.

Anyway thanks again for all your advice. I’ll report back after my search concludes and we've cruised the future vessel enough to reflect on the process.

Cheers

[lyl]

Compac 27?

[AKA-None]

C&c mk4 is the largest and imho the best of that line. I’ve had mine for about 5 years and yes I’ve had to address cored deck issues.
Fun boat easy to single hand and it can be fairly cheap to maintain if you do the work yourself

[J.Marsh]

Originally Posted by Chris8120

A friend of mine has a CS27 for sale, it's not listed on any public site though. The engine is and drivetrain is pretty much perfect, (he is diesel sailboat mechanic, and a very good one in my opinion!). The interior has been professionally detailed recently. Has self tailing winches. Sails are older, and it the red cove stripe really needs a change. Shoal draft with wheel steering. I believe the price is around $9000. I can grab his phone number if you want. It's in Toronto.


As for the $2500 one. Well, that's a great price, but considering I sold my CS27 for $13,000 last year, I have to think there may be issues with it. Maybe not, you never know, but I would be wary.


If you want to look at the refit of mine that was done by the previous owner, there are over 200 pages and 300 photos here: The CS27 Ravat Chronicles


It may give you and idea of the workings of a CS27. There are also some survey tips in there.

Chris8120: Yeah, I’d be interested in your friends contact info. My email is jmarsh@laurentian.ca. Thanks

[nortonscove]

None of the ones you've listed will compete with the 27 Mirage designed by Perry. Good build quality and great sailing boat. Sold mine last year and found it to be the most balanced sailboat I'd ever been on.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Gary Mc

A diesel is far superior to an atomic four or an OMC sail drive. I would not consider buying a boat without one.
With all of these boats there is a strong possibility of wet coring. Some in the deck can be repaired but if he hull is wet I would walk away.

None of the models mentioned so far have core in the hull.

If you really want a moisture meter, one of the very best is about $50.
Don't spend money on a moisture meter until you have read ...

Moisture Meter Mythology.


.

[Chris8120]

Originally Posted by J.Marsh

Chris8120: Yeah, I’d be interested in your friends contact info. My email is jmarsh@laurentian.ca. Thanks

Will do, I left him a message earlier.

[acem]

27 ft boats are a good value these days. Catalina 27s are good weekend cruising sailboats foracoupleor small family. The atomic 4 is ok if you know how to do an old fashioned tune up, it's not hard to learn. Shallow draft is nice in freshwater! Good luck! Thx-Ace

[CAR54]

For the past 8 years I have raced and cruised my J28 all over the east end of Lake Ontario and up the St. Lawrence river. It draws 5 feet and has a 10 foot beam, during delivery to regattas and cruising its usually single handed. Draft has never been a problem cruising this area.



The size of the boat lends it self to single handing. It has 6 foot plus head room, the power plant is a Yanmar diesel and is a high quality build that includes stainless steel ribs, lead keel, and a cored hull, but as I found out replacing the depth sounder through hull, the factory used a solid one inch thick, one foot square area plate, of fiberglass where it went through.



In my experience any boat that is old will have deck rot around the chain plates unless all the previous owners maintained the caulking around the chain plates to a very high degree.


Have fun boat shopping and good luck!

[EarlWer]

I just bought a Bristol 27. Needs some work (don't they all?).
4' draft, 5'10" headroom, so I'm OK inside.
It's a very old boat... and my first impression was 'small'...
but I'll probably be single-handed and it's my first monohull.

See you on Lake Ontario (hopefully).