Advice on purchasing bluewater - see criterion

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Wow, can they be had for $35K now in good shape? If so that's encouraging! That would be a great find!

Condition is everything in an older boat. Not many 35-50 year old boats are ready to depart for a long bluewater cruise.

[rosatte]

I bought a 15 thousand dollar blue water crusier last yr just finishing the refit cost 130 thousand dollars good luck on 50 grand for a turn key boat

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Clemroc

...

Thanks! We are definitely not looking for an "attractive" boat, as long as its in good conditions/safe. Ideally, it should be able to go through the Pacific once equipped for it (we don't want to have to switch boats after the Caribbean lol), but it doesn't need to have all the equipment from the get-go.

What would you consider absolutely essential?

My opinion on the equipment is: VHF+AIS, chartplotter (that also does gps+depth+knots), watermaker, batteries+inverter and solar panels. While wind instruments, auto-steering and all the other stuff look nice, we do not feel like they are an absolute necessity. We wont even take a dinghy, just a kayak with paddles.



Of course, we will have life-raft, EPRIBs and a Garmin InReach for security.

You sound relatively young, so can likely put up with a lot. Contact some of the micro cruiser folks on here for advice about cruising on much smaller (less expensive!) yachts. Would have to give up the private cabins though - friendly relations might have to take place at your prospective partner’s place.

No autopilot (electric and/or wind) means minimal sleeping during passages. Seriously! OK in the Caribbean but no good in the Pacific.

OTOH, a chart plotter is not necessary - you can get by with a tablet/phone. A stand alone depth sounder is relatively cheap and necessary for anchoring the if you can’t see the bottom.

No dinghy is fine, but consider how you will move the two of you plus supplies between land and your boat, or visiting other boats. Swimming is OK, but could get old after a while.

Without refrigeration you will have to pay a lot of attention to preserving food. It can be done (was the norm until the 80s), but limits your diet.

Think about what you need for living on board long term, not just camping for a weekend or a few weeks.

Good luck!

[Tupaia]

Wharram Phia 42 - if you are young and fit these are not easy but cheap to maintain and gives you masses of space


Pahi 42 for sale, in Honduras (ref 1380) - Scott Brown Multihulls
http://garuda-sale.de/


Just a thought

[RSB333]

Check the venerable Whitby 42. Solid build, many have circumnavigated, and been cruised by long-term cruisers who accumulated the right gear for ocean passages. The Whitby-Brewer association is quite active, and you will find a depth of knowledge among their members.
Good luck.
RSB333

[hpeer]

I’ve never had or been on a steel boat, what are the pros/cons of them? I did see some interesting designs (Brewer 44 and Bruce Roberts you linked), and they have good prices - which make me wonder if they arent "too good to be true".

“Briefly list the pros and cons of blinds and brunette.” LOL

There a certain subjects on this site that will always revolve into fist pounding disagreements over personal preference. Best anchor, cat or monohull, steel vs aluminum vs plastic. It’s religion and I won’t go there.

Briefly most folks are scared of steel boats and thus they are discounted. Many times there is good reason to be scared of them and they are not discounted enough. Yet within this group you can find some that are very decent buys for a very reasonable price as they have been tarred with the same brush.

If I hear you correctly at this point and price you are basically looking for something you can hack around with for a few years and then dispose of. This is not going to be your pride and joy, you won’t be restoring it to Bristol. You want it to sail and not sink and if you can get something out in a few years so much the better. It’s the opportunity for experience you are after.

Thus the actual hull composition, so long as it’s safe, is of secondary concern. Steel boats are generally “safe” because the keels won’t fall off, they take a lot of abuse, survive groundings and wacks. PROVIDED the hull is in decent condition. But there are plastic boats that will do the same. The Whitby is probably a good example, Ted Brewer knows a thing or two.

Welcome to the world of compromises.

[hpeer]

Another quick thought. Do this. Go to yacht world and figure out how to do advanced searches. Limit your search to your geographic area, less than 6 hours drive if you can. And $50,000. And monohull. That’s it, those 3 things.

Do a pass through the list and drop off things that obviously don’t fit your needs. Then go look at some. Talk to a half dozen brokers. Get used to listening to the BS advice they give. The point of the exercise is to gain some knowledge and experience and you may find some truly helpful people in the process.

Once having done this then do another yachtworld search, maybe with a bit bigger area if required. And now you can limit out some of the boats you don’t want. Maybe it’s by age, or rig, or hull composition. But you should now be looking at a selection that better fits your needs.

Good luck, it can be fun.

[Clemroc]

Originally Posted by hpeer

“Briefly list the pros and cons of blinds and brunette.” LOL [...] Steel boats are generally “safe” because the keels won’t fall off, they take a lot of abuse, survive groundings and wacks. PROVIDED the hull is in decent condition.

Hehe sorry about the broad-ended question, but most importantly, thank you for the answer. Those were the details I was looking for

Originally Posted by hpeer

If I hear you correctly at this point and price you are basically looking for something you can hack around with for a few years and then dispose of. This is not going to be your pride and joy, you won’t be restoring it to Bristol. You want it to sail and not sink and if you can get something out in a few years so much the better. It’s the opportunity for experience you are after.

Yes, spot on! We dirty landlubbers do not intend to escape out at sea indefinitely, but we want to fulfill this dream we've had since we were both 8. Now in our late 20s, with no family to take care of and no other moral obligations, it seems like the perfect time to do so

The first part of the plan, the Caribbean, will happen for sure. The second part (Pacific), will depend on how well we fared on the first part (and whether we still want to do it). Therefore, we're looking for a ship that will be able to, once properly equipped, do the ocean - but if we decide not to, then we can still sell it.
What we *don't* want, is to find out at the end of the Caribbean cruise that our boat, no matter how much we equip it, will never be good enough for an ocean crossing.

[kev_rm]

100% agree with rosatte.

new rigging, sails and electronics ALONE will be 50K on a boat that size.

Originally Posted by rosatte

I bought a 15 thousand dollar blue water crusier last yr just finishing the refit cost 130 thousand dollars good luck on 50 grand for a turn key boat

[Clemroc]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

100% agree with rosatte.

new rigging, sails and electronics ALONE will be 50K on a boat that size.

I've seen a few offers that had the riggins+masts redone in 2017-2019. Since I just need low-tech electronics, as long as the riggings + hull + masts are fine, I can make due with the rest.

[Jim Cate]

new rigging, sails and electronics ALONE will be 50K on a boat that size.

BUT, they won't need NEW rigging, sails or electronics to get started on their plan. Well, perhaps rigging... but they sure don't need fancy electronics and used sails are commonly used by low budget cruisers (like we once were). And the cost of re-rigging can be markedly reduced by DIY.

Jim

[Clemroc]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, perhaps rigging... And the cost of re-rigging can be markedly reduced by DIY.

Jim

I read on CruisingWorld the following:
"For an average 40-foot boat, Cockerill estimates about $100 per foot to re-rig with wire rigging ($4,000), as well as the round-trip cost to haul and launch the boat and unstep and step the rig (an additional $2,500 or so)."

I'd much rather put that money into something else (watermaker, perhaps), so I will definitely prioritize used boats with a sound hull&keel, and good quality rigging.

As for the sails, I read on ImproveSailing:
"Sails on mid-sized boats (34') will generally cost between $3,000-$5,000. Prices can greatly vary depending on boat length, sail material, quality of fabric, and so on. Cost increases relative to sail area and hull length."

Also, as Jim pointed out, I can make due with old sails (as long as the stitching doesn't come undone lol) - after all, it's a cruise not a race!

[Jim Cate]

I read on CruisingWorld the following:
"For an average 40-foot boat, Cockerill estimates about $100 per foot to re-rig with wire rigging ($4,000), as well as the round-trip cost to haul and launch the boat and unstep and step the rig (an additional $2,500 or so)."

Clem, it may be presumptuous for me to disagree with a glossy sailing mag, but one can reduce such costs in many ways. First, it is totally unnecessary to haul or relaunch the boat to renew rigging. Second, it is totally unnecessary to remove the mast to renew the rigging. And third, it is totally unnecessary to hire a rigger to do the work.

True, it is a bunch of work for the DIY owner, it requires several trips up the mast, and it requires the ability to read a tape measure accurately. Or, simply removing the wires one at a time and taking them to your nearby West Marine or industrial rigging shop or at last resort, a local yacht rigger. They can, in short order, reproduce the bit of rigging and then you replace it and move on to the next bit. Or you can do as I have done and use mechanical terminals (Sta Lok or equivalent) and just make up the new stay on the dock yourself. These terminals are a bit dearer than swaged-on ones, but you do it yourself, saving trips to the shop for each wire... and they are re-usable. And for that matter, are more reliable than swages!

It's still gonna cost a bunch, but not as much as indicated in your source, and it's good experience to have under your belt.

Jim

[Don C L]

Yep, there are a few of us here doing things on a shoestring and as Jim says, for anyone who doesn't mind getting their hands dirty you can do it. I did my rigging and got used sails for my old boat. And it's true, you do not need to haul the boat. I won't be hauling mine till I have to do the bottom and I still got a few years on the bottom paint I got. When you first start out you might assume everything must be perfect and pretty before you go anywhere... well, some of us are proving that wrong

[hpeer]

The guy is going from Florida to Panama first. Almost certain fly he will end up in Rio for a while to sort himself and the boat out.

They are beginners. This may sound counter intuitive but Why spend a ton of money on something you may not like? Let them get going with what they find, so long as the boat has good bones they can then correct as needed.

I’ve met couples who have dumpy a few million in their first ever Boat- a blue water, round the world cat - who had to spend a year, or more, to sort it out. What he is proposing sounds much more reasonable for a first ever boat.

If it then needs a bunch more work, likely, they can come back to the states to make money and finish the project in Rio. Step by step they will grow.