advice on placing an offer, first time, please help

[Stu Jackson]

Boat Insurance, Boat Towing, Boat Lettering, Boating Apps | BoatUS


Look around that site, they explain how to buy a boat.

[blueazimuth]

A Hunter 37.5 for an asking price of $19,900? And there are typos in the listing - the beam is certainly not 18’ 3” and 169 engine hours is not right either, but typos don’t kill a boat.

Yachtworld shows 3 other Hunter 37.5s within 100 miles, with listing prices of $50-60k. Go look at them carefully, talk to the broker(s) then go back to “your” Hunter 37.5 and ask yourself why the price is under $20k. . . There has to be a reason. Be very careful - remember the adage - if it’s too good to be true ......

[Gary S]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

I don't doubt that a good buyer broker has value, but I marvel at people who insist that it's free, when it's absolutely a part of the bottom line of the negotiation.

In practice, using a buyer's broker does not change the amount of money the seller is getting. They are getting 90% of the selling price regardless. To say it is part of the bottom line of the negotiation would imply that the 10% broker's fee is negotiable. It of course is, but not after the seller has already entered the listing agreement with the selling broker.


Only way it is part of the bottom line is if you (the buyer) asks the selling broker to reduce his commission because you are not using a buyer's broker. I suppose this is possible, but I highly doubt you would have much success attempting to negotiate terms of a contract to which you are not party.

[john61ct]

I'm sure not often in reality,

but selling brokers can influence the price negotiations,

so the absence of a buying broker may cause them to allow a bit more downward leeway.

Less so in a strong seller's market, or pristine example of a boat with a cult following, but in normal weak conditions where the asking price is already high, might be a factor.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Engine really critical too, don't ignore that, don't need an official survey just a trusted knowledgeable person giving it a look. Oil analysis is I think not expensive?

Yes, engine years and maintenance are critical factors as well.

If the cooling system is degraded/clogged it might start and run great for a while but ten minutes later it's overheating. So don't sail in and out of the harbour for your test, rather run the motor for a decent while

(I don't really know anything about engines but ^ from my own personal experience.)

[atlroofman]

Originally Posted by Gary S

The purchase contract should specify terms for the seller to deliver the vessel to you with a clear title. And consequences if they do not (paying for your survey fees for example.)


You do not NEED to use a buyer's broker, but assuming the boat is listed for sale with it a broker it really doesn't cost you anything to use a buyer's broker.

Make sure purchase is subject to any and all inspections you want done. This includes survey, haul-out, engine inspection, oil analysis, rigging inspection, and sea trial.

And subject to your insurance companys inspection.

[nimbex1970]

Originally Posted by blueazimuth

A Hunter 37.5 for an asking price of $19,900? And there are typos in the listing - the beam is certainly not 18’ 3” and 169 engine hours is not right either, but typos don’t kill a boat.

Yachtworld shows 3 other Hunter 37.5s within 100 miles, with listing prices of $50-60k. Go look at them carefully, talk to the broker(s) then go back to “your” Hunter 37.5 and ask yourself why the price is under $20k. . . There has to be a reason. Be very careful - remember the adage - if it’s too good to be true ......

THank you, I noticed the beam error immediately. The boat has been in "my" harbor for about eight years. So the liveaboards say she was sailed single handed, by an old sailor. The engine shows 169, will likely need a good overhaul. It does appear too good to be true, but surveying on tuesday with a full haul out and sea trial.


I appreciate the caution at the price point, I feel that too. Hoping she is a solid as our inspection shows and the truth is that it's an old sailor ditching her.. but the caution you provided is exactly what I wanted to hear.

[john61ct]

A motivated seller, also one that's been already trying for "market price" (Hah!) for a long time, will one day just get realistic and accept a fraction of what they used to think their baby was worth.

If you're the one with cash in hand when the right mood strikes them,

sometimes it's literally a matter of the seller liking the cut of your jib, feeling their baby will be well loved and taken care of,

can be like winning the lottery!

But not if you're the one in a hurry.

So yes, pay attention to red flags, but do not assume they're deal breakers, even the otherwise great boat needing re-powering or a full set of sails can still be a bargain.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I'm sure not often in reality,

but selling brokers can influence the price negotiations,

so the absence of a buying broker may cause them to allow a bit more downward leeway.

Less so in a strong seller's market, or pristine example of a boat with a cult following, but in normal weak conditions where the asking price is already high, might be a factor.

This is all I was trying to say.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by blueazimuth

A Hunter 37.5 for an asking price of $19,900? And there are typos in the listing - the beam is certainly not 18’ 3” and 169 engine hours is not right either, but typos don’t kill a boat.

Yachtworld shows 3 other Hunter 37.5s within 100 miles, with listing prices of $50-60k. Go look at them carefully, talk to the broker(s) then go back to “your” Hunter 37.5 and ask yourself why the price is under $20k. . . There has to be a reason. Be very careful - remember the adage - if it’s too good to be true ......

You received much good advice from the group, and this is among the best. You will learn a lot from looking at sisterships, even if you buy the "cheap" one.

I'd also suggest that taking on a project when you don't need to may not be the best way to start your ownership/cruising adventure. It's hard/expensive enough to maintain boats well without having to play catch-up. My $0.02.

[billdomb]

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

...
How do we progress if we like her after a sail? Put a deposit down, depended upon survey? How do I recognize contractual pitfalls?

Please advise, and assume I know nothing, which is true, yet I think we found her! I am not interested in a buyers broker, as the cost is so low.

If wanting to do cash and records are less important, consider negotiating with payment directly in gold.

Sometimes that can give considerable leverage.

Less records = less traceable and may be quite desirable to the seller to the point they're willing to take a lesser amount.

[Juggerknot]

Originally Posted by Blaine

What Gary S said. A competent broker will sniff out red flags (and they likely have more experience than you), help you negotiate both before and after a survey, guarantee clean title and the safety of your deposit, etc., all for the price of... Nothing. (Provided the seller is using a broker.) At least in my area, the buyers broker is paid a percentage of the commission from the sellers broker. Why not take advantage of the extra experience and expertise? Good Luck!

OP is too far along to bring a buyers broker onboard. While I agree it is a good idea for a "new to the game buyer" it is not imperative. As long as the listing broker is reputable and standard verbage is used in the contract, OP should do fine. Most important, use your own surveyor and preferably one fluent in hunterese... Fair winds

[mghorton]

Don't you have any buddies in the marina who can give it a quick look over of the key points mentioned in this chain? Also if they are asking $19.9 you should be able to get it for $15 cash.
Back in 2003, I found a C&C 29 that had been waiting on the hard for a year and asking $23k. A friend in the boat repair business took a look, told me what were the key issues needed (the C&C keel separation mainly and new cushions) and suggested I offer 50% of the asking price. I thought that was a bit low so offered $15K and they immediately accepted. Should have gone even lower.

He fixed the keel for me, I learned how to do upholstery and now do all my own canvas work, and we had a beautiful little boat as a starter. Later sold it for $25 k to someone who contacted me to see if I was interested in parting with it.

However, on all boats, job number one is to prepare a list of needs, with some help in the early days. Price it realistically, add a contingency of 15% to 25%, and base your offer on that. Also for an older boat, with labor at $100 to $125 an hour, it is simply not realistic financially to get someone else to do all of the work, so separate the can dos and cannot dos in your list.

I often show the list and cost estimate to the seller broker to show I am not simply throwing out a number. Your own personal list should include needs and wants in separate columns so you know what it will cost you to get it where you are happy to be out on the water and smiling.

Over the years I have learned much more, watched the surveyors on a few boats, studied and developed my own skills, gone up and down in size and now have a 2006 Dufour GL325 which we bought in cash at 50% of the asking price. This one is a keeper.

Good luck with this one, but do get some good advice and be realistic over what is needed and how much you can do yourself. Also be realistic about where you want it to be in terms of condition. I am fussy and my wife is even worse, so the challenge is to enjoy it on the water regardless of where you are on the restoration cycle.

[DeValency]

The Hunters of that era were built well and the boat looks quite clean to me. Not my preferred builder, design and size but as far as I could understand a perfect boat for a beginner. Get a good surveyor and if all generally ok, take her. Be prepared to add at least $10-15K with refitting and you'll still have a great buy.
Best of luck!

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

The engine mounts were rusty, yet solid, no movement of the engine, scrubbed off a bit of rust, it's a thin layer, tried to measure, so thin It was a challenge. Engine, hoses, felt no cracking, sound, little used and in need of some solid TLC. Overflow was clear, as well as no murkey color for it or diesel. Could not locate transmission fluid to check (I'm pretty new). Looks like the previous owner almost sailed her into dock.

Appears neglected for a solid six months, elderly in poor health they say, but inside appears to correlate with with non use.

I'm excited, I know it's a generic production boat, but our plans would at max be Bahamas. The Caribbean isles? not without more modifications. Heck, she has a 60 lb bruce anchor I can't pull up myself, lol.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...-37-5-3212005/

Thanks all!

[nimbex1970]

UPDATE: We bought her! All the expected issues we noted, plus a few other issues. Final price $17.5. She is a solid boat, that of course needs work for the price.

Thank you all so very much for your time and help.