advice on placing an offer, first time, please help

[letsgetsailing3]

I think you're right to get a less expensive boat, but don't go TOO cheap. That's a lot of boat for 20K.

[Gary S]

Most good surveyor's will let you know after 30 minutes if there are obvious issues, and will let you decide to continue surveying or pay them for their hour and move on.

You can always do an inspection yourself before paying a surveyor to come out.

[Bill Seal]

Originally Posted by Gary S

Don't expect to go for a sail without an executed purchase contract.

Get a buyer's broker to look out for your interests, costs you nothing.

Our old Jeep is on it's last legs, when I go to a dealer to look for another car, if the salesman demands a deposit and signed contract before a test drive, we're walking.
We went to a boat show a couple of yeare ago, I'm still getting emails from salesmen to come down and go for a test sail. maybe I live in an alternate universe.
OK, it's a group sail. but still...

[Gary S]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Our old Jeep is on it's last legs, when I go to a dealer to look for another car, if the salesman demands a deposit and signed contract before a test drive, we're walking.
We went to a boat show a couple of yeare ago, I'm still getting emails from salesmen to come down and go for a test sail. maybe I live in an alternate universe.
OK, it's a group sail. but still...

Two things....

1. Test driving a Jeep takes 10 minutes. Sea trialing a 30+ ft sailboat can take 4+ hours depending on location, distance to open water, no-wake zones, etc.

2. Buying a new boat from a dealer or at a boat show is a completely different game than buying a used, privately owned boat.


If you were selling your Jeep on craiglist, would you let anyone who showed up go for a joy ride?

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

we do not need more than a starter boat, so why was I looking at 150k? It's because I could afford it, not need it.
…
we realized, we didn't need all that, before taking the loan we were approved for!!!

Well done sir!

Most commendable, you'll see just how wise. . .

Taking out a loan for a consumable, non income-producing purchase is IMO never a good idea, unless you're so rich we're talking about pocket change.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

yikes, I hope I don't waste a survey fee. broker says this is from a true sailor, who doesnt motor, lol. we shall see.

If a survey helps you walk away from what would have been an expensive soul-sucking nightmare, why would you call that a waste of money?

Those of us that really need a surveyor to know what we'd be getting into IMO should happily spent the money required, even if it's a $5000 boat. The less of a fixup reserve fund we have in fact the better spent the survey fee becomes.

[icemate]

Originally Posted by rsn48

I'll throw this out there for others intending to purchase a boat and have access to cash or a decent line of credit. If you can pay $150,000 for a boat, best to find a slightly older boat and only pay between $75,000 and $100,000 for it, using the difference to fix up, refurbish, rehabilitate, and buy new stuff like electronics, upgrading the anchor to a modern one, etc. You will end up with a better boat and supplemental items like maybe a new dinghy and/or kicker motor.

Even with well maintained boats, there are always issues, not fatal issues, but "stuff" that needs attention, new paint, etc. I bought a great in shape older power boat that I will add about $100,000 this year and probably another $30,000 to $50,000 in the next two years, 2020 and 2021. So I am adding Efoy, new firefly batteries, getting drawers installed where there were none, a new stand up pantry beside the fridge in the galley, new decking, repowering, etc.

So for example, on an older boat the radar, if it has any is probably getting close to its "best before" date, and not have the options you'd like, better still if the boat doesn't have radar then adding new electronics with a MDF (multiple display unit) is an attraction. If the bones of the boat are solid, you can modify, upgrade, refresh, remodel the rest.

If it were me, I'd get a decent older boat that probably won't win any races for around $50,000 and throw $100,000 to bring it up to speed. Another example, on my boat much will be new - refrigerator, separate freezer, new inverter and charger, all new electronics with radar (Doppler - target acquisition), forward sonar, AIS on new radio, new addition of a bow thruster, and as I said before, re-powered with a Volvo Penta 280 duoprop and leg, new trim tabs and hydraulic steering, new anchor and new composting toilet, along with a diesel interior heater.

At the end of the day, I feel I have more boat for the $150,000.

You could not have said it better. I purchased a $70,000 boat for $37500 and refitted almost the entire boat. New sails, rigging, motor, dripless shaft seal with new shaft and prop. Radar, anchor windless, wind generator, solar panels, and new Bimini., Made a mistake on electronics as I purchased a package unit. I would advise separate electronics as you can repair or replace one a lot cheaper. Took off bottom paint and applied 3 layers of West Systems Barrier Coat. 21 years latter and not one blister. You gave good advice, I hope they listen.

[nortonscove]

Originally Posted by Gary S

Don't expect to go for a sail without an executed purchase contract.

Get a buyer's broker to look out for your interests, costs you nothing.

Really? My broker just assumed we were going for a sail and had it arranged prior to my arrival in his province. Hard and fast rules don't seem to have a great deal of merit.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Gary S

Don't expect to go for a sail without an executed purchase contract.

Get a buyer's broker to look out for your interests, costs you nothing.

Those are both misleading.


As for a sail, if you're a serious buyer, I doubt they'll require an executed contract.


Second, someone (the selling broker, the seller, or the buyer) is paying for the buyer's broker out of their part of the deal. To say the seller is paying for it is an oversimplistic and possibly misleading perspective. A buyer broker may be worth it, but his cost is coming out of the deal somewhere, and it could very well be coming out of the buyer, even if it's the seller who is writing the check.

[Blaine]

What Gary S said. A competent broker will sniff out red flags (and they likely have more experience than you), help you negotiate both before and after a survey, guarantee clean title and the safety of your deposit, etc., all for the price of... Nothing. (Provided the seller is using a broker.) At least in my area, the buyers broker is paid a percentage of the commission from the sellers broker. Why not take advantage of the extra experience and expertise? Good Luck!

[dakno]

Hey how exciting . The legend series were nice boats. A survey is worth the money, has it ever had water inside, is engine rusty, is electrical system sound, condition of plumbing, sails, rigging. A survey will answer all of these questions. Good luck

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Blaine

What Gary S said. A competent broker will sniff out red flags (and they likely have more experience than you), help you negotiate both before and after a survey, guarantee clean title and the safety of your deposit, etc., all for the price of... Nothing. (Provided the seller is using a broker.) At least in my area, the buyers broker is paid a percentage of the commission from the sellers broker. Why not take advantage of the extra experience and expertise? Good Luck!

I don't doubt that a good buyer broker has value, but I marvel at people who insist that it's free, when it's absolutely a part of the bottom line of the negotiation.

[nimbex1970]

thanks all, as a fairly newbie, I can say she was more than we expected, interior work needed, has carpet on the walls, missing shelves, likely standing/running rigging re-do (but I can be wrong, just a touch of experience with my google degee).

Now, I have zero electrical experience, so we put a deposit down, after a 3 hour inspection, no water, She's just an old gal. Calling a surveyor on monday, as electronics, need to be hull safe and a basic engine check.

From Surveyor research: looking to ask for a sample survey, membership with ABYC, NAMS or SAMS, the price point is 20k, not worth a full and separate engine survey. We are looking at about a $15k refit, which aligns with the selling price of similar ones. This is my estimate of what I am comfortable in my pocketbook from MY survey with this boat. She is a beauty, and has potential, so we are jumping in. Survey and sea trial pending in the purchase contract.

As always, I love opinions, so please bring 'em. Thank you all again so much for your time and feedback.

[nimbex1970]

Originally Posted by dakno

Hey how exciting . The legend series were nice boats. A survey is worth the money, has it ever had water inside, is engine rusty, is electrical system sound, condition of plumbing, sails, rigging. A survey will answer all of these questions. Good luck

The engine mounts were rusty, yet solid, no movement of the engine, scrubbed off a bit of rust, it's a thin layer, tried to measure, so thin It was a challenge. Engine, hoses, felt no cracking, sound, little used and in need of some solid TLC. Overflow was clear, as well as no murkey color for it or diesel. Could not locate transmission fluid to check (I'm pretty new). Looks like the previous owner almost sailed her into dock.

Appears neglected for a solid six months, elderly in poor health they say, but inside appears to correlate with with non use.

I'm excited, I know it's a generic production boat, but our plans would at max be Bahamas. The Caribbean isles? not without more modifications. Heck, she has a 60 lb bruce anchor I can't pull up myself, lol.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...-37-5-3212005/

Thanks all!

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by nimbex1970

interior work needed, has carpet on the walls, missing shelves, likely standing/running rigging re-do

Don't sweat the small stuff, cosmetics & consumables.

Focus the surveyor on sails, mast & chain plates, hull / deck sound, keel & rudder, through hulls, tanks.

Engine really critical too, don't ignore that, don't need an official survey just a trusted knowledgeable person giving it a look. Oil analysis is I think not expensive?