Advice on Circumnavigation Vessel

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Bash

That's vintage design philosophy from an era when a waterline of 34' was considered huge for cruising boats. But look at the difference between LWL on a Valiant 40 (34') and the Beneteau 473 (43' 10")

Given the choice between circumnavigating in either of those two boats, I'd choose the Beneteau in a heartbeat. A substantially larger boat is going to handle seas substantially better. It will be far more comfortable in a seaway, and will make passages shorter. More room for the type of gear one needs on a circumnavigation, such as bicycles, and a lot more liveable at anchor.

You are stating the obvious. I'm not suggesting that he buy a Valiant, or that a 40' boat is going to be more comfortable than a 47' boat. I'm suggesting that of two boats of comparable length, the one designed for blue water is going to be safer and ultimately, if he spends lots of time sailing offshore, more comfortable. If you argue with that, well, I don't know what to say.

[tom1263]

Originally Posted by terminalcitygrl

The Mahina Expeditions website has lots of good info on different boats. He also consults/ provides support service on boat purchases, and has a lot of offshore experience. Could be $600 well spent when you're thinking about a $200k+ investment.

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

Thanks, a very important website with lot of informations about types and models.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

Fuel... I agree that 225L isn't enough

LOL I only have 160 liters fuel tank.


and 2 x 220 L water and no watermaker.

[YoloSF]

I'm loving the responses and learning from most of them...

I'd like to chime in and say that a 100% pure bluewater boat is not what I'm looking for. Chances are, I'll spend 80% of my time cruising around land, at anchorages, etc. I'm not looking for a boat that can't survive a gale, I understand I won't have the fastest boat, or the most comfortable, or the cheapest, but, I'd like a combination of all those factors. And quite frankly, comfort at anchor and the day to day cruising are more of a priority than surviving hurricane strength winds.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but based on my research, one of the biggest factors in surviving a storm is not only the boat, but also the sailor.

I'll continue to research, call up some of the contacts you guys have sent me privately, and read up on your responses.

Thanks!

[tom1263]

Yolo, with the simple the question "Advice on circumnavigation vessel" you always get a wide range of responses. And a 100% circumnavigation boat isn't exist....

A good boat for a circumnavigation, is always a personal choice between security, comfort and budget.

A simple example: Look at the underbody of eatch boat and ask you self it's good to have a unprotected rudder and screw? My tip, make a simple list with points für comfort, security, must have and nice to have.

good luck...

[deckofficer]

YoloSF, so a Santa Cruz 50 doesn't do anything for you? I just figured as a young guy, an interior best described as "ex-raceboat barren" would not be an issue.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

LOL I only have 160 liters fuel tank.


and 2 x 220 L water and no watermaker.

Yeah. But you've only circumnavigated once in that boat.

At least so far.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

I'm loving the responses and learning from most of them...

I'd like to chime in and say that a 100% pure bluewater boat is not what I'm looking for. Chances are, I'll spend 80% of my time cruising around land, at anchorages, etc. I'm not looking for a boat that can't survive a gale, I understand I won't have the fastest boat, or the most comfortable, or the cheapest, but, I'd like a combination of all those factors. And quite frankly, comfort at anchor and the day to day cruising are more of a priority than surviving hurricane strength winds.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this, but based on my research, one of the biggest factors in surviving a storm is not only the boat, but also the sailor.

I'll continue to research, call up some of the contacts you guys have sent me privately, and read up on your responses.

Thanks!

Just make sure to keep in mind that the 20% sailing that you do in the boat may be some very long sails between ports. Make sure the boat you buy can handle the long distance sails in addition to those lazy island days on the hook.

Thinking about it, a boat like this may work for you:

1979 Hardin 45 Ketch w Recent Upgrades Sail Boat For Sale -

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Do yourself a favour and don't fall into the trap of the over-read and under-circumnavigated crowd that will tell you to buy a boat for the worst possible event. You will end up in a steel hull with no windows and a compression door for a hatch.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Suijin

You are stating the obvious. I'm not suggesting that he buy a Valiant, or that a 40' boat is going to be more comfortable than a 47' boat. I'm suggesting that of two boats of comparable length, the one designed for blue water is going to be safer and ultimately, if he spends lots of time sailing offshore, more comfortable. If you argue with that, well, I don't know what to say.

To answer this one has to decide what is meant by "designed for blue water". After dozens of threads and discussions it seems pretty clear that there is no clear consensus on what that means. There are as many definitions and interpretations of blue water sailing or boats designed for such as there are sailors.

Slightly better but still very general might be "trade winds sailing" or "high latitude sailing".

To be clear perhaps specify your interpretation of the term or what kind of design you consider appropriate for blue water.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by skipmac

To answer this one has to decide what is meant by "designed for blue water". After dozens of threads and discussions it seems pretty clear that there is no clear consensus on what that means. There are as many definitions and interpretations of blue water sailing or boats designed for such as there are sailors.

Slightly better but still very general might be "trade winds sailing" or "high latitude sailing".

To be clear perhaps specify your interpretation of the term or what kind of design you consider appropriate for blue water.

[svdreamkeeper]

Hey YoloSF

Having just recently come back from a 4.5 year circumnavigation, I can tell you first-hand that all different types, styles, and sizes of sailboats are going around all the time. Whatever you choose to buy, just make sure you really like being on her and can see yourself living on her for many years.

If you do travel into the northern or southern lats, then, yes, of course, you should consider something a bit more stout for heavy weather, of do some modifications to some of the lighter boats out there you are interested in to reinforce their weaknesses.

We have hung out with many international sailors going around on small Jueauneu's and the like, as well as very stout 35-50'+ hallbergs and their like. If you buy a cheaper boat, then you may have to put more into her in terms of modifications and money in the long run. Or, who knows, maybe not.

For 4 people on board, then you will want something bigger. If only 2, with maybe a couple more folks here and there, then you will obviously get more bang for your buck with a smaller boat that is more banged out with gear or a newer year.


If I was in your shoes, I would probably go with a solid well-taken-care-of Halberg or a Kelley Peterson 44. They are both great solid boats with nice spaces and proven circumnav vessels that people go around on year after year.
But, like i said before, you can get around the globe with any boat if you take care of her well and make smart conservative decisions.

Good luck and hope my 2 cents help a bit!

Cheers!

gar

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by svdreamkeeper

Hey YoloSF

Having just recently come back from a 4.5 year circumnavigation, I can tell you first-hand that all different types, styles, and sizes of sailboats are going around all the time. Whatever you choose to buy, just make sure you really like being on her and can see yourself living on her for many years.

If you do travel into the northern or southern lats, then, yes, of course, you should consider something a bit more stout for heavy weather, of do some modifications to some of the lighter boats out there you are interested in to reinforce their weaknesses.

We have hung out with many international sailors going around on small Jueauneu's and the like, as well as very stout 35-50'+ hallbergs and their like. If you buy a cheaper boat, then you may have to put more into her in terms of modifications and money in the long run. Or, who knows, maybe not.

For 4 people on board, then you will want something bigger. If only 2, with maybe a couple more folks here and there, then you will obviously get more bang for your buck with a smaller boat that is more banged out with gear or a newer year.


If I was in your shoes, I would probably go with a solid well-taken-care-of Halberg or a Kelley Peterson 44. They are both great solid boats with nice spaces and proven circumnav vessels that people go around on year after year.
But, like i said before, you can get around the globe with any boat if you take care of her well and make smart conservative decisions.

Good luck and hope my 2 cents help a bit!

Cheers!

gar

Excellent response.

Just one comment. I agree that a larger boat would be my preference for cruising with four but on the other hand, small can work. Many years ago I ran into four cruisers, two couples, in the Caribbean on a 27' boat. They were from Germany, bought the boat in Europe and sailed over. When I met them they had been cruising for close to a year. I'm guessing they were all very good friends.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by skipmac

To answer this one has to decide what is meant by "designed for blue water". After dozens of threads and discussions it seems pretty clear that there is no clear consensus on what that means.

It's a phrase invented by marketing departments to put down the opposition. Our boat is a "blue water boat," and those other boats that outsell our boat are mere "coastal cruisers." Go out in one, and you will die.

Some folks buy this marketing hype hook, line and sinker. We've had someone on this very thread state that all the sailboats manufactured by the largest sailboat manufacturer in the world are coastal cruisers.

When you ask why, you get really tired answers, like, "The cockpits are too big." For some reason they think that a Beneteau 50 should have the same size cockpit as a Westsail 32. Because, otherwise, you'll die.

I used to crew on offshore races on an Andrews 53 that had no coaming whatsoever behind the helm. Its cockpit was way more open, and way bigger, than the biggest cockpit Beneteau ever built. Nobody ever accused an Andrews 53 of being a coastal cruiser, possibly because it won so many offshore races.

Hmmm.

[Mary Flower]

Originally Posted by YoloSF

What do you mean by the shrouds and jib tracks being placed inboard? As opposed to where?

Here is what Walt Schulz of Shannon Yachts has to say on the subject:
"The side decks on serious offshore boats should offer ample space from the trunk cabin outboard to the toe rail, double lifelines, and 30" tall stainless steel stanchions. Mast stays and genoa tracks should be positioned outboard at the toe rail. This is a significant safety difference between a Shannon and the typical combination racer/cruiser. Going forward at night or in bad weather on a boat with shrouds and genoa tracks right in the middle of the side decks can be difficult and hazardous. The one or two degrees improvement in windward performance that inboard shrouds and tracks may provide simply does not warrant this liability. Accepting the premise that safety should be foremost, the side decks on an offshore boat must allow an unobstructed passage from the cockpit to the bow."

Something tells me you have never had to go forward on a heaving deck at 3am on pitch black night with 30 knots of wind blowing and the accompanying seas to deal with. Like I said earlier, the Wauqiez is a boat that is just lying in wait for the opportunity to toss you in the drink.

Originally Posted by YoloSF

What does concern me though is the SAD of 14. Where did you find this? I"m going to have to do a bit more research on this aspect.

Use this website to determine several key aspects of any boat. All you need to know are the dimensions for each element. Just fill in the boxes, click Calculate, and you'll find out all sorts of interesting information.
Rate Your Boat-gosail.com


Here are links to two pages from the Shannon website that discuss these and other issues relative to offshore sailing. There are many other sources of this kind of information but I'll use Shannon since I have owned one of their boats and am quite familiar with their work. Since 1975, Shannon has built hundreds of offshore yachts; many of which have crossed oceans and circumnavigated. Not a single one has ever been lost at sea. Their reputation in the industry is stellar.

http://www.shannonyachts.com/Offshore%20Issues.pdf
Shannon Deck Plans

For a graphic depiction of the side deck issue, compare the photo of the side decks on a Shannon in the above link with those on the Wauqiez PS 41 shown here: View Boat Photos - YachtWorld.com