Advice, Morgan 40' Ketch (NOT an OI)

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by JerseyMermaid

............
................. The owner spent quite a few hours with us yesterday going over the boat. It is NOT an Out Island, which he scoffed at and said were "pigs in the water with flat bottoms". Clearly, that answered his feelings about THAT! .........................

I was amused by this. I would never promote a Morgan Out Island as a "performance boat"; however, the underwater configuration, keel and draft of the 1970 Morgan Ketch is exactly the same as the Morgan OI 413. 'just a little less LWL and beam.

[SailAwy]

Hey Jersey, just went through exact same thing with my Morgan 323. Same thing. Not an OI, so there was close to nothing available online aside from a little vague info here and there.

I finally ended up connecting with previous/current owners of my elusive model on the Morgan Yacht Facebook group. There’s about 1100 members on there, so someone is bound to be able to help you. I know your pain though. Aside from the OI that everyone is familiar with, and from what I can tell, mostly despise, the ocean goers are far less common to track down price comparables and general info.

Hope this helps and good luck!

[KadeyKrogen38]

The Morgan 40 cruising ketch is in no way similar to the Out island. These were great sailing and well built boats.
She can really sail and tack. She is a K/CB hull.

[SailAwy]

Kadey, I learned the same thing recently about the non-OI Morgans. Was very impressed with all that I learned, and our 323 sails incredibly well so I can only imagine how great of a sail a 40’ must be.

I recommend anyone with a Morgan to check out the Morgan Yacht owners group on FB. I got in touch with some fantastic people for much needed insight and tips.

[Bill O]

Jersey,
Is this the M40 for sale In Gloucester? If so, you may have a good chance at offering something lower than they are asking since it been on the market for >1 yr. From the description and pics it does look like much has been done, but much more is needed to be ready to head out full time cruising.
Those boats actually sailed well, so that's a good thing. As some have mentioned, additional items you would need like solar, new refrigeration, electronics, etc. to get it cruise ready will add up $$ quickly. Hopefully you know by now, boats are not money makers and you'll never get the $$ or sweat equity back out when time to sell. This is especially true with the older boats.
One problem I see w/the aft cockpit ketch is how do you installing a good bimini that is going to allow you to stand behind the wheel or move easily in the cockpit. You'll be spending a lot of time there so it needs to fit you (are you tall?) and depending where you are sailing, shade will be very important. It looks like an easy fit for a dodger though.
The engine/trans looks like it was freshly painted in the pics. Not certain if that boat came w/ a diesel originally (maybe an A4?) but the motor weight is now further aft than original and the trans is facing forward. Also did not see any mention of the V-drive being rebuilt (Walter was a common one). The only reason I bring up the V drive besides another gear box to maintain, but be aware of the added difficulty to access/service the stuffing box w/the engine/trans over it.

Lots of things to check for in an older boat and a survey would likely be needed. If you are serious in this boat, maybe ask the owner to go for a sail to see how it sails and is the helm really balanced, etc. While you will get a chance to sail it in a sea trial, it usually isn't enough time to get a good feel for how it sails. This is very important aspect, especially if you are going cruising.


Bill O.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by KadeyKrogen38

The Morgan 40 cruising ketch is in no way similar to the Out island. These were great sailing and well built boats.
She can really sail and tack. She is a K/CB hull.

Your absolutely right. I was not considering the centerboards as you have on your Kadey Krogan and as is present on the Morgan 40 ketch. I was just noting that, with the boards up all three of these boats have the same cut-away forefoot , same draft, same long keel contiguous with the same rudder shape. It's true that those who have experience limited to fin keel boats have difficulty tacking a long keel or full keel boat, but that's simply a learning factor. All three of these boats have the same underwater configuration (centerboard up) and behave differently from those with the cut-away between the keel and rudder. That's why the "Catalina" Morgan Out Island had this design change.

[Tony B.]

Hello, I'm the owner of Lady Katherine II, the straight answer is get a survey,
take the boat out for seatrials. IF she fits your requirements and is affordable, go for it make sure the layout is what you want , and or, can work with under sail.

[DaleM]

I have a 1971 Morgan 40 ketch. I got it free, spent $15,000 to $20,000 and 2,000 hours to rehab. Value of the boat is 15k to 30k.
Was it worth it? Maybe, she is a fine sailor, sails can be trimmed so she sails with two fingers on the wheel. Only two negatives, she is narrow, about 11.5 feet and she won't back due to the full keel. The narrow interior makes it feel like an old trailer compared to newer boats. She is heavy, stable and can be fast. Send me a pm and we'll exchange phone numbers to talk about it. I don't know what they're asking but older boats have no bottom limit to the price. Dale

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by DaleM

..............and she won't back due to the full keel.
........

I'm assuming Dale won't mind me clarifying this statement for those that aren't familiar with maneuvering full keel boats.

Of course these boats do "back", but they just don't move in the intended direction like the fin keel boats. With right-hand props they tend to back to port. Most of us with long keels aim for a target in reverse that lies to port and, when backing in to a slip we position the boat at an angle outside the slip. These boats can be made to rotate clockwise in a narrow space by leaving the helm hard to starboard and alternately applying thrust in short burst of forward and reverse. This works better with a three blade prop opposed to two blades. In addition, backing in a desired direction improves with more way on.

Final word, Dale's right, they won't "back"!

[DaleM]

Thank you for the correction. They will back up, just not as easy as fin keel boats. I guess my previous post sounded negative. The Morgan 40 ketch doesn't match the fashion of the day, meaning wide, fast light boats with huge interiors. They're fairly fast, good sailors and stable. This boat has increased my comfort in rough weather and feels safe. Dale

[Hudson Force]

My thoughts were an intent to clarify rather than correct. I love these "older style" boats. I started with a fast, light, fin keel Sparkman & Stephens, that did me well, but I settled into the heavy, long keel boats, and admittedly slower "trucks" for most of my cruising years.

All these choices...Mono or multi; bright interior or dark cave; different rigs; different designs and materials,- expenses, performance - passages.... I just can't buy into the thoughts that there exists a right or wrong beyond personal choice.

As posted on the wall of Norman's grocery in Hope Town, "Nothing goes to windward like a 747!"

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

My thoughts were an intent to clarify rather than correct. I love these "older style" boats. I started with a fast, light, fin keel Sparkman & Stephens, that did me well, but I settled into the heavy, long keel boats, and admittedly slower "trucks" for most of my cruising years.

All these choices...Mono or multi; bright interior or dark cave; different rigs; different designs and materials,- expenses, performance - passages.... I just can't buy into the thoughts that there exists a right or wrong beyond personal choice.

As posted on the wall of Norman's grocery in Hope Town, "Nothing goes to windward like a 747!"

Well said re: personal preference.

While younger could do w/less comfort and a smaller boat, now as I get older, comfort and livability are seemingly more important than super fast. Not looking to sail a rock, but then again sail performance doesn't really matter when at anchor for the majority of time while cruising.


Bill O.

[dsw911]

To OP:

What was the outcome with this ketch? Did you make an offer? Have it surveyed?

[JerseyMermaid]

Thank you everyone for all the excellent advice.

Given the seller's price point, we felt we'd be in way over our budget and opted to walk, though now in hindsight, I guess you never know if you don't make an offer.

Additionally, while she was beautiful, I assessed that it was just too much boat for what we're wanting to do the next few years until DH retires from the Coast Guard. We are now in the process of closing on a Sea Sprite 34, which has been lovingly cared for and only used as a racer. Full keel with a cutaway at the bow and much simpler in terms of systems and handling for cruising the Chesapeake Bay, with the added ability of cruising to the Bahamas when skill and comfort level to do so is achieved. I'm so excited!

Best to you all,

~D.