Cruisers Forum

  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-09-2014, 14:08   #16
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 17,977
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

What a great first post by TxMarineRepair! Heed this advice, mate... it is well thought out!

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, back in Port Cygnet once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2014, 14:26   #17
Registered User
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 9,539
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

Originally Posted by rmadry View Post
Originally Posted by TxMarineRepair
I would like to suggest a completely different approach. Since the only stated reason for your proposed change is to add stability, why not just reduce the heeling forces. (Full disclosure - I am a sailmaker as well as an owner of an old IOR boat that is tender too). If I were in your shoes, I would:
1. Remove all the loose lead from the bilge and sell if for scrap. At about $.50 per pound you get $500. The boat will be lighter (and in theory faster on most points of sail) or at least you will have compensated for 1000# of cruising gear you have put aboard.
2. Then I would look into a good new smaller overlapping headsail. I know, for many, overlap is like male performance, bigger is better. But in truth, increasing overlap provides little or no increase in speed, except at very low wind velocities - below 6 - 7 knots true - so all that extra overlap provides nothing other than drag and heeling moment. I used the data

logging feature to record wind speed, wind direction and boat speed to create a set of polars for my old IOR boat and was stunned to see that a 105% jib had equal to or even better than a 135% on every point of sail, and in every wind velocity except in the very low wind ranges. And in all honesty, if you are a real cruiser, when the wind gets down to 6 knots, the iron genoa gets started anyway. So you lose nothing.

Some other advantages of small overlap headsails:
1. Lower cost
2. Far, far easier to tack
3. Better visibility
4. Better reefability

So just a though, chuck the lead and make your sailing easier with a smaller overlapping headsail, and maybe faster with a smaller headsail.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner!
Makes the most sense to me.
Changing the designers specs.?

I guess if you as a racer or a cruiser buy the one you want.
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2014, 14:39   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tasmania
Boat: VandeStadt IOR 40' - Insatiable
Posts: 2,317
Images: 91
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

We have an old IOR racer. It is kinda tender too. Especially without the 8 big guys on the rail. What we have done is
a) Cut about 400 mm (16") Off the boom, and sized our mainsail to suit
b) Reduced from a typical 135% - 145% overlap genoa to about a 120% Genoa (on a furler)
c) Because the genoa is on a furler, it doesn't come down to sweep the deck , further reducing the sail area

For what it is worth, we also have a short-hoist mainsail as well, that we use for cruising - it is about the equivalent of 1 deep reef in a the full size main (we use the full size main for racing).
Weyalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2014, 14:58   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,939
Images: 1
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57 View Post
Some earlier IOR boats went this way, my old boat had a custom keel by naval architect Chance, (cant remember his first name).
Britton Chance
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-09-2014, 19:52   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Currently in the Caribbean
Boat: Cheoy Lee 47 CC
Posts: 882
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
Britton Chance
Thanks for the memory jog. I was writing during a break in my absolutely crazy day, gotta pay for all the rework my current boat needs.
When I got that boat it had all the original blueprints with it, I was able to make templates from those and totally fair the keel, made for one of the most balanced boats I've had the chance to sail ( no pun).
I loved that boat and learned much about sail trim with it, I sucked as a racing captain (not willing to smash a perfectly good boat for a 50 cent trophy) but had some minor victories with it and had a hell of a
lot of fun. That boat also lured quite a few people into sailing, it had such a fine tactile feedback' it just had that right feel. You know, when you hit a puff and it accelerates, you feel the power of the sail plan and the boat just gracefully takes off, and for that moment it just feels awesome. Just about every one who "got it" would break out in a big **** eating grin when they were behind the wheel feeling that rush, I usually would be trimming when putting newbies behind the wheel, it really got the point accross.
For my wife and I it was the perfect cruising boat, we could race it from time to time and cruise it at will. Only when the two boys came along and our cruising horizons expanded did we decide to move to a bigger, heavier cruising boat.
For a cruising couple they can make great cruising boats, with some mods the creature comfort factor can be upped. Most are luxurious and sea kindly compared to their modern cousins.

I totally agree with TX Marine, sail plan options can make a huge difference, I was lucky and had quite a sail inventory for that boat. 150, laminate 155, heavy 100, light 100, storm jib on an inner forestay, symetrical spinaker, racing main, cruising main with three reef points, etc, etc. It allowed a wide range of setups.
Moving to a smaller headsail makes for much easier handling and covers 90% of your needs unless your sailing in a light wind area where the 150 ends up as a fallback. I would suggest an asymetrical spinaker for cruising since it's easier to handle short handed.
Sail options are far cheaper and safer. Good call TX.

All in all, old IOR boats of sane design can make fast, solid, sure cruisers as long as you understand the strong and weak points of the design.
lifeofreilly57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-09-2014, 03:59   #21
Moderator Emeritus
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,975
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
What a great first post by TxMarineRepair! Heed this advice, mate... it is well thought out!

Holy smoke...

Thanks for catching the first post status Jim...
That deserves more than a +1 best answer ...
Welcome to CF TxMarineRepair!
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2014, 13:24   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 16
Re: Adding Lead To Keel,

Many thanks to you all. You have been most helpful me to decide just what to do. Thus I will leave as is for the moment but tie the lead down some how. If I am satisfied with that, all well. Other wise I will make a plaster cast of the bottom of the keel. Make to 2 half bulbs in the lead and bolt them on the next slipping. I am up to the challenge and have all necessary including the lunatic attitude. Which all is well. Many thanks again and best wishes good sailing,
col blumson is offline   Reply With Quote


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Keel J bolt replacement in lead keel Matt Johnson Construction, Maintenance & Refit 24 15-01-2015 05:11
Lead keel vertical cracks in lead Secondwave Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 21-05-2013 08:50
Forming Lead Keel and Afixing it to the Boat Kristian Construction, Maintenance & Refit 11 10-02-2010 18:58
Lead Keel - Stainless or Bronze Keelbolts ? colo.sail Construction, Maintenance & Refit 13 06-02-2010 19:39
Bulge in Wing Keel Lead Panamajames Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 01-06-2009 05:10

Advertise Here

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.