A little help, please...

[Bleemus]

Your thinking too much with no experience. Go sailing offshore for a week and get back to us if you run into some rough weather.

[BCMAN]

That sounds like good advice! It also sounds like you're telling me that sailing a 30 footer to the Caribbean is not a big deal, is that true? Thanks!

[Bleemus]

Originally Posted by BCMAN

That sounds like good advice! It also sounds like you're telling me that sailing a 30 footer to the Caribbean is not a big deal, is that true? Thanks!

Lots of people do it every year but they are experienced. I have done it in boats from 30 to 137 feet long. Each has its own challenges but it is all doable with EXPERIENCE.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by stormalong

The original post begins with "I am totally new to all of this". That sounds pretty clear to me that he has zero experience. IMO the responses are very appropriate.

When I say the thread got sidetracked, what I meant was that most of the responses seem to be heading in the direction of how much does some certain marina cost, how do they rate your boat length, etc. I think the OP wanted guidance on what type of boat to buy with an initial low cost, not so much a question of monthly costs.

But your point is correct, he needs a general education on boat ownership. Best to start small, say 36' or less, older stock design not a thoroughbred ocean world cruiser, do a lot of short coastal cruising. If that is successful then move up in size if the means and the desire exist.

[john61ct]

Best to start on OPB

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Best to start on OPB

For a complete newbe it's best to spell that out: Other Peoples Boats.

[alansmith]

BCMAN, You have some choices to make. That is smart of you to talk to guys and gals on a forum that have a gagillion years of experience. You don't give us much information about where you live or your companion's thoughts about this adventure.

1. No experience...so what...we all start off by putting one leg in the jeans at a time. Since you admit not living near the water....you and your sweetheart should not enter into any misadventure of buying a boat until you absolutely know what you want. Take ASA courses for your vacation time. Invest in experience and education. I will say it again....Invest in your success by getting educated and gaining experience through that educational process.

I am assuming you have a sweetheart. Through these classes you are investing money into her education and yours. She is not just the cook...she might be steering the boat while you are picking up the mooring buoy. She might be remapping the gps when plan A went to hell in a hand basket due to weather system clocked around on you. You would be dealing with other weather phenomenon like downsizing your sail area aloft.

If you make the mistake....and it is a terrible mistake that many men wish they had never made....of not getting her in step with your goals...you could lose your chance at making her a happy companion with you. One of my friends here took his Asian wife out on San Francisco Bay during a real blowy day. Got her so sea sick that she has never sailed again with him. He regrets it terribly.

So, lessons first...you will get a feel for her attitude and zest for this adventure. Many beautiful places in the world to visit for the adventure. Yes, it will cost some jing.

Boats are easy to buy. Boats can be very difficult to sell. The boat i just bought cost me about 25K and was on the market for three years down in San Carlos, Sonora, Mx. It is a great boat and needs very little. You can find great buys if you are patient and know what you are looking for.

I am a multihuller by heart. I don't see myself as the guy sailing to far off places. So a trailerable boat works for me. You might want to explore that idea as it is viable for many. I put my trimaran on a trailer and pull it to the area i want to explore. Maybe i will stay in that locale for a whole season. Then pull it behind my truck to the next locale. When the Bahamas get too dangerous due to weather and too hot...I can truck her up to Lake Ontario and do the fabulous scenery up there for a couple of months.

Look...all you need is a bed, toilet, stove, and a small fridge. I see no sense...at my age....to scare the hell out of my sweet wife in 40 knot winds and 15 foot comers. If i want to sail Tahiti...i will rent something there and fly there. Otherwise...i will sail the hell out of North America, Mexico, and eastern Caribbean until i am almost dead. I am 67 years old now.

There are many ways to skin a cat. With trailerable boats you don't pay dockage fees. Your boat isn't in the water 365 days a year with all of it's problems. It is not a huge boat with the huge prices. A 40 foot boat's anchor might cost three times the amount of a 30 foot boat's anchor....it is surreal. It is not a linear thing with boat merchandise. It is more like advanced Calculus. Even exponential math doesn't apply to what is charged for rigging or gear handling on a 45 footer versus a 30 footer.

Read...watch video blogs...there is a bloke in Australia named Simon Carter. You can catch up with him on Youtube. He has over a 100 videos of him sailing with himself...sometimes with his wife and daughter around the east coast of Australia. Humble man and easy to watch what his life is like on this small sailboat...endlessly entertaining and shows you what a coastal sailor is all about.

Last thing....women like to be clean. They will only put up with so much sailing. There are women who will live aboard boats and adapt to this style of life. But they are pretty rare birds. Set your wife and yourself up for success. It is germane to your sailing life.

[GrowleyMonster]

Some good points, Alan. Often we stuck in the water boat folks forget that a trailer sailer can be a lot of fun, too, and usually a lot less hassle. There are trailerable boats of pretty respectable size out there. For VERY casual and somewhat limited inshore cruising, you can't get much more flexible than say a McGregor 26 or similar. Some of these type boats get a lot of sideways remarks from old salts or wannabe salts, but the idea of a boat big enough to sleep a couple, big enough to cook on, that you can sail reasonably well or motor okay with an outboard, that draws a foot of water and can be towed by a light pickup truck, has a lot of appeal for a certain market. Take a road trip. Drive. Tow the boat. See a lake, however small it might be, if it has a launching ramp, go sailing. Nice. Unlike most day sailers, you have a cabin roomy enough to nap in. Stay on the water for a weekend. Or a whole week. Use it for a camper. Go fishing. When you get back home, "dock" it, in the driveway, where it won't support a giant ecosystem on the bottom and there are no slip fees. Not a bad option when you live far from water.

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by BCMAN

From my reading I’ve learned the bigger the boat the more stable, and probably faster the boat will be, and especially if there is to be any blue water sailing. My understanding is the boat should be 38 feet or longer. And with my space requirements, I’m thinking more in line with a 42–46 foot sailboat.

In general, the stability, comfort, and safety of a specific type of hull increase with the length at the waterline. But different types of boats have different characteristics. It would be incorrect to say that all 38 foot boats are superior to all 30 foot boats in these respects. Check out Tom Dove’s Sailboat Calculator.

Also, a 46-48 foot boat is a whole lot of boat to single hand. It is harder to dock, harder to maneuver in a marina or crowded anchorage, the sails are bigger, the loads and forces you will be dealing with are greater. I would recommend a size range of about 32-38 feet.

Everything on a bigger boat costs a lot more, either in terms of your time or your money.

I’ll be buying used, and I’ll probably be looking in the $40k to $60k range with my initial expenses. Is that reasonable thinking? Thank you!

Probably not in the mid 40 foot range. On the other hand, you could get a nice boat in the mid 30s for that.

Where you plan on going should also dictate this choice in part. Cruising the ICW and Bahamas is going to require different considerations - shoal draft, mast height considerations for the bridges, etc.

The mast height of my 38 foot boat prevents me from crossing Florida at lake okechobee. It’s draft prevents me from taking the inside route from SW Florida to SE Florida. If I had chosen a Hallberg - Rassey 35 for instance, I could have crossed Florida at Lake Okechobee. if I had chosen a keel-centerboard design or a lifting keel like a Southerly, I could have run the entirety of the gulf and Atlantic ICW without ever going outside.

The bigger the boat, the more limitations you will place on yourself when trying to go places with a lot of bridges and shallow water. Certain tall masted boats are forced outside the ICW in SE Florida, for instance.

sailing a 30 footer to the Caribbean is not a big deal

See above. You could sail a Westsail 32 or a Rawson 30 anywhere you wanted to go. But I don’t know that either makes for the ideal boat to hang around the Bahamas in. Also “the carribean” isn’t a single entity. Going from Florida to the Bahamas and possibly working your way down to the Dominican Republic is a completely different matter from leaving Miami and heading to Dominica. If I was looking for to wander around the ICW/Florida/the Bahamas in, I would probably be looking at something like a Tartan/Morgan 34 centerboard or perhaps a 33-36 foot Out Island and the aforementioned Westsail and Rawson would not make the list.

So you see, this is a complicated matter...far more complicated than buying a home or car...and there are inevitably a lot of compromises in making your final choice.

[coastalexplorer]

Alan smith and Growley monster do make important points especially for an inland located inhabitant. However based on the assumption that BC in BCMAN stands for British Columbia. There is potentially one glitch to the trailer-able boat idea. Which is the weight. A few years ago British Columbia ministry of transportation brought in driving license requirements for towing trailers over a certain weight. which requires either a class one commercial truck driving license. or certain tests to acquire the suitable endorsement on the drivers license. I have never had cause to consider what a fully loaded a McGregor 26 or similar could weigh?

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by coastalexplorer

Alan smith and Growley monster do make important points especially for an inland located inhabitant. However based on the assumption that BC in BCMAN stands for British Columbia. There is potentially one glitch to the trailer-able boat idea. Which is the weight. A few years ago British Columbia ministry of transportation brought in driving license requirements for towing trailers over a certain weight. which requires either a class one commercial truck driving license. or certain tests to acquire the suitable endorsement on the drivers license. I have never had cause to consider what a fully loaded a McGregor 26 or similar could weigh?

A light boat, that. Google sez:


"The MacGregor 26 is an American trailerable sailboat, that was designed by Roger MacGregor and first built in 1986, with production ending in 2013. The boat was built by MacGregor Yacht Corporation in the United States. Wikipedia



Boat weight: 2,250 lb (1,021 kg)


Total sail area: 240.96 sq ft (22.386 m2)


Hull draft: 5.50 ft (1.68 m) with the centerboard down


E (mainsail foot): 10.38 ft (3.16 m)


Ballast: 1,500 lb (680 kg) of water


Mainsail area: 129.75 sq ft (12.054 m2)


Jib/genoa area: 111.21 sq ft (10.332 m2)"


Add the weight of the trailer, 575lbs, and you got a pretty nice tow for a large car or a medium size pickup. For a practical tow it on the road and dunk into random lakes boat, it's pretty roomy. These boats are said to beercan badly in adverse conditions, and with water ballast and centerboard, far from a practical boat for ocean cruising, but I would have no problem with sailing one inshore or in fresh water.

[JohnAdams]

Being ex-Navy, the OP must have some profound comprehension of seamanship, even if not in smaller boats. There's plenty to boat craft that translates in both directions.

These sorts of decisions come down to a process of deciding what your operational requirements are. Presently we know you want to go places relatively fast (presumably to avoid bad weather), want the boat to be about 40-foot and to cost 60 grand. Maybe you have a type in mind and are fishing for clarification. Regardless, there are plenty of boats that meet your criteria in terms of design but that's just the start of it.

You also want to buy a boat that some one thoughtful has put together for their own adventures and that includes all the primary systems (rig, sails, mechanical, tankage, electrical, comms, shade protection and covers, weather protection, ventilation, stowage, power generation, plumbing, ground tackle, galley, refrigeration, safeties, tools, spares, dinghy, outboard, etc).

You want these fundamental systems to be of the highest possible quality, allowing you to maintain your purchase to that high standard as much as possible by yourself. You can add other little bits and pieces as you go but as soon as you start throwing money at multitudinous primary systems, your 60k will turn into 120k before you know it.

The design of the boat is something that could be argued over endlessly. IMO, if you want something 40-foot and fast and you're not young, then it had better not be a Westie, a Tayana or a Valiant. I'd be going for something of moderate displacement with a narrow-ish beam and a half-skeg rudder that can hold maximum boat speed with the least possible sail area in 20-plus knots, without sacrificing tracking or stability in the sorts of weather you're prepared to go out out in. Of course, I'm describing my own boat.

Regardless of all these speculations, I'd be cadging a ride from a friend for all I was worth. If that's not an option, rent some one's Pearson Triton or buy a cheap Folkboat with a couple of hanked on headsails and a 6hp outboard and go gunkholing by yourself for a couple of months. You'll know what you want when you're done.

[evm1024]

As you can see there are plenty of "ideas" for how you should (not)proceed.

But you are doing the right thing in asking and learning.

Let me suggest that you pick up a copy of John Kretschmer's book 'Used Boat Notebook'. Where he outlines the features (plus and minus) of a bunch of good boats.

This will serve as a start in understanding the trade offs in various boats.

Regards

[Bullshooter]

BCMAN,

You may want to read my thread:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-174214.html

I got some great advice, if conflicting!

I definitely agree that you should take the ASA courses.

I also think you should try chartering to see if you and wife really want to spend lots of time on a boat. Racing is not the same. I don't believe the cost is out of line with other vacations. I have chartered 5 times and this summer I chartered in Croatia for a week with 4 couples on a new catamaran. Cost for the boat was ~$1300 per couple, plus we split 140 Euros in diesel and a few hundred in mooring fees. You can't hardly get a good hotel or B&B for that- I know because we spent a couple extra weeks in Spain and Croatia in B&B's.

Last summer we went with the cheapest charterer in the BVI, Captains Compass, and had a 39' Beneteau for 19 days for only $2100. Yes the boat was older and had some issues, but nothing too bad. Seabbatical has inexpensive long-term charters, such as a Jeanneau 41 for $7200 for four weeks in the BVI.

Jeanneau 44 Bareboat Charter in the BVI.

If you had another couple or two to go in on the vacation, it could be as low as $2400 for 4 weeks. True that the money could have gone to purchasing a boat, but it could also prevent you from making a big mistake if you or your wife/girlfriend does not like being on a boat long-term. Plus the charter vacation would be very enjoyable.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

BCMAN,

You may want to read my thread:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...at-174214.html

I got some great advice, if conflicting!

I definitely agree that you should take the ASA courses.

I also think you should try chartering to see if you and wife really want to spend lots of time on a boat. Racing is not the same. I don't believe the cost is out of line with other vacations. I have chartered 5 times and this summer I chartered in Croatia for a week with 4 couples on a new catamaran. Cost for the boat was ~$1300 per couple, plus we split 140 Euros in diesel and a few hundred in mooring fees. You can't hardly get a good hotel or B&B for that- I know because we spent a couple extra weeks in Spain and Croatia in B&B's.

Last summer we went with the cheapest charterer in the BVI, Captains Compass, and had a 39' Beneteau for 19 days for only $2100. Yes the boat was older and had some issues, but nothing too bad. Seabbatical has inexpensive long-term charters, such as a Jeanneau 41 for $7200 for four weeks in the BVI.

Jeanneau 44 Bareboat Charter in the BVI.

If you had another couple or two to go in on the vacation, it could be as low as $2400 for 4 weeks. True that the money could have gone to purchasing a boat, but it could also prevent you from making a big mistake if you or your wife/girlfriend does not like being on a boat long-term. Plus the charter vacation would be very enjoyable.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Good points on the chartering. I have never chartered, but on the other hand, I did not go from zero sailing or ownership experience straight to potential buyer of a $60k boat, either. Even a week or two would be a good experience. A newbie couple would need to go in with another couple. SOMEBODY is gonna have to sign on the dotted line and show some sort of certification to the charter company, after all. If total expenses could be kept down to under 3k for the whole adventure, it could be considered money well spent out of the total boat budget.