A little help, please...

[akprb]

Here she is! Look no further :-)

http://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/63799

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by BCMAN

retiring to a Sailboat is very appealing to me. But I’ve never done it!

Am I correct in assuming from this you never spent any prolonged (or any) time on a sailboat and want advice which to buy?


If so, it sounds like to skipped a few steps here.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by tripkirk

I have an Endevour 35 that measures 38.4. I am in a slip that can hold up to a 40 foot boat so I am charged as if I was a 40 for boat.

What part of the world?

Certainly not unheard of for marinas to charge this way but in my experience on the US east coast that is the exception and not the rule.

[GrowleyMonster]

Different, at different marinas. At mine, we are charged by the size of the slip and we have a 10% overage allowance. So lets say I am in a 30' slip paying $485 a quarter. My boat is 27' and that slip rent is what I pay. If my boat was at or under 33' that is what I would pay, too. If it was an inch over, I would be in a 35' slip and pay $535 a quarter. Many charge by the foot, yeah. And less desirable slips sometimes go less, like right next to a clanging pier gate, or near the wall where maybe it is too shallow for fin keel boats, or at the pier head or where there is no finger pier. So depends on the marina, how much what size boat pays. Some marinas have some extra wide slips for multis, and of course those slips will come at a premium. At my marina liveaboards are allowed and do not pay extra. It is felt that the liveaboards provide enhanced security for the marina and also for other boats. Some do charge extra, and some don't allow liveaboards at all.



I would urge you to spend some time crewing for others, before looking for a boat. Get to know your future neighbors at the marina. Keep your ear to the ground for boats up for sale, and ask your new friends about them. And don't be afraid to go down a notch on the size. There are a lot of smaller boats that are fine for a single or a couple to live aboard. You could possibly pick up something at around 30' for a third of your budget, ready to sail, at least if you stick around the local waters for a while. At 30' the average retiree can keep up the boat and still have disposable income. Go up to 45' or bigger and it can be tough. Something like a Catalina 27 or a 30 would be a great learner boat. The 30 isn't really meant to be a world beater but you COULD cruise in it, maybe with upgraded rigging including chain plates. Plenty of folks out cruising in smaller boats than that. Not saying it would be as comfortable as a boat as big as your house, but something like that will treat you well if you treat it decently. You can always upgrade to a bigger boat later if you feel like you need to, and after crewing on a couple of bigger boats.


Most areas have races on the weekends, and plenty of opportunities to crew. You might start out as "rail meat", or human ballast, moving to the windward side at every tack. You would probably be moved up to a more responsible position after a couple of outings, where you can learn more. The skipper or owner will certainly give you an earful of what it costs to keep up the boat, too. Some places you will find Wednesday evening "beer can" races where things are a bit less formal and competitive, and everybody mostly just wants to have some fun. Greater opportunities to learn how to actually sail the boat. Just walk around your local marina or yacht club and ask people who seem to be getting the boat ready to sail. If you look eager and cheerful, and there is a spot open for a newbie, chances are you will be invited to go. Personally I think racing sailboats is silly but you might enjoy it and most importantly you will be learning and making friends that have experience and knowledge. This is a great way to get your hand in, before spending your nest egg on something that looks like it will serve your purposes. The next logical step up would be to crew on an actual ocean passage, since you want to cruise. Bigger commitment cause you can't just get disgusted and walk off in the middle of an ocean. If you are lucky, a lot of stuff will go really really wrong and you will get the opportunity to not only observe, but to help fix what needs fixing and keep the boat floating and going. At the least, you will learn lots of colorful language to fill out any gaps in your naval vocabulary.


Lots of aspiring sailors just go for it and buy whatever boat seems like "The Boat". This sometimes works out well. Sometimes, in fact usually, not so well at all. They often find themselves in over their heads, with a learning curve that overwhelms them and issues hitting them from left and right. Some people decide that sailing isn't for them but are stuck with a boat that they can't sell for 2/3 what they paid for it, and meanwhile insurance and slip rent and maintenance are like a big anchor and a short chain.



So I recommend getting a hand in the game before you open the checkbook and jump in with both feet. And I also recommend a boat on the smaller side, at least to start with.

[BobHorn]

Most marinas we've been in charge by the length of the slip. So if you want to park your 10' dinghy in a 40' slip you will pay for the 40' slip. Many marinas the required slip length is the length of the boat plus 3' or 5'.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by akprb

Here she is! Look no further :-)

1994 Hunter Legend sailboat for sale in Florida

That is what I'm talking about....great factory features and this one has all the right stuff added...davits, radar, wind, RIB....the list goes on and on. And quite a reasonable price. Someone is going to get a great boat!

1994 Hunter Legend sailboat for sale in Florida

[Mithril Bham]

The short answer is 100 pages long. That Pearson 442 would be a good choice if you could find one in good shape.
You need to charter and sail a lot prior to making a decision. I like big, heavy boats but many would disagree. Weather up here is extreme lots of times. I prefer 42 to 44 ft for cruising and living aboard. Had a Passport 42 I loved and lived aboard with family.
Plan on spending at least 100G's unless you want to spend your retirement working on boats like I do. I'm 70 and have no problem handling the lines. Stay in good health if you want to do this. Start small with a sailing dinghy. Lake sailing is a great way to learn the basics. Loved my Lightning.
Pay a lot of attention to the engine.
Good luck

[a64pilot]

Everyone says go charter, crew on a race boat etc. and I’m sure it’s all good advice.
However price Charters, they are big $$$. For the price of a few chapters, you can buy a much nicer Boat.
Crewing is a great idea, so long as you live within a distance to where there are races.
It’s often a catch 22, work so that you can afford to buy said Boat, or take time off to crew and or spend money on charters.
I chose to do neither, and bought a 38” IP as a starter Boat with the intent of buying newer and bigger if we liked sailing.
Ended up staying with the 38 IP. Now they are a big 38 meaning more room than most, and we are docked right beside of 40’ Hunter, both anchors are even with the dock, but our boat is several feet longer. I don’t know, I guess some boats are measured differently?

Don’t buy a boat figuring you will have guests, everyone thinks they will have all these guests, yet almost none do. Instead, rent your guests a room at the local resort, they and you will be happier I bet and in the long run you will come out cheaper.
However our second head became the laundry room and some storage, and the second Stateroom is storage, so while you only need one cabin and head, you can use a second for storage, and likely will. However that sort of puts a crimp on the idea of guests.

Again in my opinion only, about 50’ starts meaning you need or have to have a bow thruster and electric winches, and things get expensive and complex then. Amel Super Maramu for example, a wonderful Boat, but it helps if your a mechanic or Engineer to own one, and way out of your budget anyway.

My advice is if budget it $100K or so, stay at 40’ or less, your going to spend way more than you think making all the systems like you want them to be, some call that a refit. In my case it was an original fitting out.

[stormalong]

If you are buying a boat with no experience you are entering a minefield. You need experience to make the right decisions.

Do you live near a yacht club or marina. Captains are often looking for crew. Ask around. Charters are helpful too but you must qualify before they will hand a boat over to your control.


Marine surveys are also important. They can also be pricey but never take the word of a seller or a yacht broker as truth.

Do you have good mechanical/electrical skills? Boats, especially older boats need work and labor is expensive. The ability to identify and correct problems before they become catastrophic failures is important.


I don't mean to be a downer but you need to have you eyes wide open when buying a serious boat.

[nhschneider]

It's easy to understand why the allure of cruising on a sailboat is so strong for so many people. Indeed, there are many hours of idyllic sailing in a gentle breeze and calm waters to be enjoyed by those who are willing to take the risks, cast off the dock lines and head to distant places. The white sand beaches of a protected cove with palm trees swaying in the wind are there to be had by those with the means, the skills and the attitude that takes them off shore. The people we've met and the places we've seen while cruising have been extraordinary. However, while not trying to discourage the Original Poster, there is a reality to cruising that causes some people with similar desires to abandon their dreams, sometimes after a very short period of time cruising.

First of all, the expenses of purchasing and preparing a boat can easily snowball and get out of hand. If you're extremely clever or skilled at performing creative work-arounds, you can sometimes get by without spending a fortune but I only know of a few cruisers who can do that successfully time after time.

The amount of physical labor that can be required to maintain a boat can be overwhelming, frustrating and discouraging. Even vast amounts of money sometimes won't help as on numerous occasions I've seen contractors and laborers complete jobs incorrectly or so poorly that the owner had to redo the work him/herself. I do 99% of the work on my boat myself but I recently had to remove the engine to replace a $20 bearing. It was days of hard work.

Whereas it's relatively easy to avoid storm conditions - modern forecasting enables the blue water cruiser to know approximately where and when they should or should not be - that doesn't mean it's always possible to avoid uncomfortable and even frightening conditions. A powerful squall with strong convection can be very humbling and those can occur in many, if not most, parts of the world.

Even the simple tasks that are part of living can become more difficult than most people are used to. To do the laundry, for example, we can either do it by hand in a bucket (have you ever tried to wring out sheets by hand?) or you can lower the dinghy, motor in to a dinghy dock (if you're lucky - otherwise you hopefully land on a beach where the surf isn't too big), lug your dirty laundry to a laundromat, wait for the laundry to be done, haul it back to the dinghy and try to get it back to the boat without getting it wet with salt water. It can take most of the day for two people.

In the last seven-and-a-half years, my wife and I have covered over 48,000 miles. Even though we're still 3,000 miles from home, my wife has said that she's had it with long passages. The boredom, the discomfort and the sleep deprivation have become more than she wants to endure. I cannot fault her. She's an expert sailor, a skilled navigator, a knowledgeable weather forecaster and remains calm in crises. I couldn't ask for a better mate and I understand how she feels.

Cruising on small sailboats isn't for everyone. I encourage people to try it as the rewards can be stratospheric but don't be surprised if you find that it isn't your cup of tea.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[grantmc]

I enjoyed GrowleyMonster’s post above very much. Really practical advice written in a positive way. And I absolutely concur on most items. Whether you gain sailing experience in other people’s boats or your own, whatever you do go sailing, gain experience. I’d encourage people to join a boat club and participate in their activities. It’s a great way to practice, especially when you might otherwise not go out, say in bad weather. And you get to knock around ideas with people who often have extensive experience. In my experience charters are a very expensive way to gain experience and I wouldn’t recommend it.

You can of course gain wide experience as you look for a boat to buy. Take as many as you can out for a trial sail.

The OP asked about 42-46 foot monos and a budget of $40k to $60k. To the OP I’d suggest thinking carefully. Running costs of a vessel that size are significant. The stresses and strains on the gear are 2-3 times greater than on say a 30 foot boat and so the costs of parts etc can be almost exponential. I also think that people add much more home comforts to bigger boats, like AC, washer/dryer, big TV, microwave, pressure hot and cold water etc requiring significant battery banks and charging systems. As a result much less to go wrong.

For example, on a 30 foot boat you won’t find too many planning dinghies. A 2 or 3 HP motor would be a luxury (most use oars), and there are unlikely to be davits. But lift a 10hp motor and carry it a distance. Because you will often need to carry the dinghy (with outboard) from the water line to the high tide mark (and back).

And I am not knocking having the goodies that make life pleasant, but you need to meet the financial requirements for size.

There was also some discussion on marina rates. My marina charges by slip size as follows:
Slip Size Long Term Lease (Monthly) Daily Casual
10m Berth (33 feet) $3,660 $30
12m Berth (39 feet) $4,530 $35
14m Berth (46 feet) $5,500 $40
16m Berth (52 feet) $6,500 $45
18m Berth (59 feet) $8,200 $50
12-16m Catamaran Berth $6,500 $45
16-20m Catamaran Berth $8,200 $55
Live Aboard Surcharge $110 per month

The live aboard surcharge is a fixed rate to cover electricity and water. Showers and laundry facilities are coin operated. They also operate, in effect, a restricted contractor system. Contractors are required to hold a very expensive third party insurance or they’re not allowed on site. As a result, choice of contractor is very limited. There are no restrictions on DIY, and the marina has a very good range of hire tools at fair prices.

[conchaway]

Do yourself a HUGE favor: Find a reputable training center and take ASA 101, ASA 103, and ASA 104. Then rent sailboats of sizes in which you are interested, and sail them for a week or two each. By doing that, you will know whether or not sailing is for you and what size boat would be for you.
Do not even THINK about getting a boat unless your life partner is "all in" for the idea; you will not be a happy camper.

[Elie]

What tourbles me a bit is the fact that it will be not only your first boat but also your first experience a a live abord. Sailing is appealing, romance and all, but the reality many would be sailors discover(after buying their dreaboat) to their dismay that it is not as they expected. Not only costs, but all the experience and problems that come with the ownership of a sailing boat: Weather, boat handling, repairs, maintenance, etc are part of the joy of sailing, and normaly all sailor learn by their mistakes.Bu some discover that that is not they cup of tea. fast!. I have seen many of dream brocken.
What I would suggest you is :
1- to try a couple of weeks in a rental boat with an experience skipper to see if you would really like this life;
2- Be realistic about the real cost of owning a sailboat including, insurance, possible sail repair or replacement, upkeep of boat in a marina;
3- Use the services of an expert independant surveyor(never the one suggested by the seller!) .
4- Avoid at all cost a boat that has repairs already evident;
5- Keep in mind that all costs will increase exponentialy with the size of a boat. A 40 ft sailboat will cost twice in upkeep then let say a 30 footer.

So keep your dream alive, but keep also a clear vue of where you go!

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by grantmc

I enjoyed GrowleyMonster’s post above very much. Really practical advice written in a positive way. And I absolutely concur on most items. Whether you gain sailing experience in other people’s boats or your own, whatever you do go sailing, gain experience. I’d encourage people to join a boat club and participate in their activities. It’s a great way to practice, especially when you might otherwise not go out, say in bad weather. And you get to knock around ideas with people who often have extensive experience. In my experience charters are a very expensive way to gain experience and I wouldn’t recommend it.

You can of course gain wide experience as you look for a boat to buy. Take as many as you can out for a trial sail.

The OP asked about 42-46 foot monos and a budget of $40k to $60k. To the OP I’d suggest thinking carefully. Running costs of a vessel that size are significant. The stresses and strains on the gear are 2-3 times greater than on say a 30 foot boat and so the costs of parts etc can be almost exponential. I also think that people add much more home comforts to bigger boats, like AC, washer/dryer, big TV, microwave, pressure hot and cold water etc requiring significant battery banks and charging systems. As a result much less to go wrong.

For example, on a 30 foot boat you won’t find too many planning dinghies. A 2 or 3 HP motor would be a luxury (most use oars), and there are unlikely to be davits. But lift a 10hp motor and carry it a distance. Because you will often need to carry the dinghy (with outboard) from the water line to the high tide mark (and back).

And I am not knocking having the goodies that make life pleasant, but you need to meet the financial requirements for size.

There was also some discussion on marina rates. My marina charges by slip size as follows:
Slip Size Long Term Lease (Monthly) Daily Casual
10m Berth (33 feet) $3,660 $30
12m Berth (39 feet) $4,530 $35
14m Berth (46 feet) $5,500 $40
16m Berth (52 feet) $6,500 $45
18m Berth (59 feet) $8,200 $50
12-16m Catamaran Berth$6,500 $45
16-20m Catamaran Berth$8,200 $55
Live Aboard Surcharge$110 per month

The live aboard surcharge is a fixed rate to cover electricity and water. Showers and laundry facilities are coin operated. They also operate, in effect, a restricted contractor system. Contractors are required to hold a very expensive third party insurance or they’re not allowed on site. As a result, choice of contractor is very limited. There are no restrictions on DIY, and the marina has a very good range of hire tools at fair prices.

Wow! Those are painfully high rates!

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Wow! Those are painfully high rates!

Don't I know it.
Sadly they are fairly typical rates here in New Zealand and the above are at the lower end of the scale.
Beach front property; why does every one want it?