40 year old sailboat with good survey, vs 20 year old sailboat with good survey?

[stinkpots]

My boat is 49, nearly 50. She was traditionally built to Lloyd's 100A1 out of New Zealand Kauri.
We bought her about 8 years ago , she had been neglected for some time but a thorough survey and subsequent work showed that her bones were in perfect condition.
I love older wooden boats as they have great character, but you need to love them to take on the work. I have spent quite a lot on her over the years mainly upgrading equipment, very little required on structural work as not needed. I will never get my money back on what I have spent but I knew that from the beginning. (I have owned several boats)
I had surveyed other wooden boats before buying this one and would not touch them with a barge pole. They would have cost a fortune to repair and restore.
You really have to assess if you have the time and inclination to restore an older boat. Personally I would never want to own a modern light weight plastic fantastic, but then there are many more who would never touch an old wood boat.
The choice comes down to the following assuming you go into any boat with eyes wide open, being honest with yourself about the committment and cost.
What YOU like, having a thorough survey, checking you can get insurance and willing to spend the time and money to bring the boat up to the standard YOU expect.
Have fun on this journey, but do it with thorough research and surveys, the older the boat the more important you have a good surveyor. Don't assume all surveyors are the same, get one that has proven experience with the type of boat you are looking at. I used a specialist wooden boat surveyor, worth every penny.

[ms.lau]

Older fibreglass boats tend to be stronger (thicker fibreglass) than newer ones and any osmosis problems sorted out. They also tend to be a bit slower and have less comfortable interiors. I'd prefer an older boat for long distance cruising but if you're just starting out that won't be an issue.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Allied39

LOL, of course, I stand corrected. Obviously an impeccably maintained vessel, I bet the interior is simply bristol.

The interior is fine for a programmer since they mainly care about a good/working computer, keyboard, and maybe a mouse.

The interior is also fine for a cruiser that actually sails his boat rather than hanging out at a marina.

Someone should really write a book on this guy's near circumnavigation on this old Bristol 27.

The yellow box on the floor in one of the pictures looks like a Canakit Raspberry Pi. I got the idea from this guy to build my own chart plotter with a Raspberry Pi 4 that also displays AIS on my 19" HDTV on my Bristol 27.

I bought two of the Raspberry Pi 4's like in the link below. The 4 tells you it has 4 GB of Ram. They now have RPi 8's with 8 GB Ram.

They have a Linux OS so are a bit harder to use than your normal computers.

https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi...minum-kit.html

For those interested, you can load the OpenPlotter software onto your system

https://openmarine.net/openplotter

Sean's pypilot comes with the OpenPlotter software it appears.

https://openplotter.readthedocs.io/e...wnloading.html

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by Snore

When you buy a used sailboat you buy the original build quality and the maintenance and improvements done by the previous owners.

I own a 40 year old Tartan. She has aged better than some newer Hunters and Benes I have delivered.

What Snore so eloquently stated!

[SteveSadler]

For the same reason you'ld opt for a 2005 car over a 1980 same model. Vast improvements have been made in design, materials,construction, layout, livability, performance, equipment, etc. While some things haven't changed much,(engines, pumps, sails, stoves), newer boats, (post 2000) are a vast improvement. My last boat was a 1978 gulfstar 50, my current boat is a 2006 Jeanneau 49. Night and day.

[OS2Dude]

Buying a used boat is a crap-shoot. A lot of older production boats cut corners on things to bring the price down for the 'Every Man'. One brand used metal pipes glassed into the hull instead of real seacocks, used trailer connectors for the electrical harness that later corroded, caused problems and sometimes fires. (Not to say modern boats don't sometimes cut corners too.)

Research the boat for the year and model and see if there are any known issues with it. Most can be fixed, so the boat you're looking at may have already been upgraded.

[thomm225]

Good story about old boats, buying one, then sailing it to the Bahamas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwbHYOFD-4

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by Duxa

........Production boats have not changed much in the last 50 years as far as getting you from point A to point B. Safety (structurally) is pretty much the same, speeds are the same? Things that changed are the layout, electronics etc... is this a correct assumption?......

Ditto Swift Drift!!

Big difference with newer production boats is they have far better layouts below in the salon, galley, berths, heads, storage, separate shower cabins, more refrigeration capacity, electric freshwater toilets, larger berths, larger cockpit, better winch and control line layout, larger anchor lockers, transom entry/exit, more tank capacity, cockpit arch with boom out of the way, furling mainsails making them more comfortable to sail, anchor and stay on the boat. In addition, a 20 year old boat might have better electronics vs. 40 year old boat. For those reasons I own a 2005 Hunter 46 with a bow thruster, separate shower room, newer electronics at the helm and navigation station, cockpit arch just to name a few features that I would not get with a 40 year old sailboat

[Barkingmad]

Depends on what you want to do with the boat, I really don't like a lot of the newer dockominium designs.

Some of the arguements for a newer boat are pretty silly I've rarely seen a old boat that still had original electronics let alone everything else. At 20 years old whatever you buy is due for a major refit even if it never left the dock.
I wouldn't trade my CS33 for ANY of the current crop of Hunters, Catalina, Beneteaus etc....The only original parts left to mine are the hull, mast & boom, water and fuel tanks.
Buy the design that makes you happy and works for the type of sailing you want to do. Big difference between day sails back to the dock and taking off for remote locations unsupported for weeks at a time. Big difference between the great lakes and the oceans.

Whatever you buy is going to cost you way more in time and money than you imagined anyway.
The ONLY thing I wish is that they had the resin technology and vaccum bagging techniques when mine was built. A heavy resin rich layup is NOT stronger by any stretch, adding cloth the the layout schedule is where the strength is.

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

For the same reason you'ld opt for a 2005 car over a 1980 same model. Vast improvements have been made in design, materials,construction, layout, livability, performance, equipment, etc. While some things haven't changed much,(engines, pumps, sails, stoves), newer boats, (post 2000) are a vast improvement. My last boat was a 1978 gulfstar 50, my current boat is a 2006 Jeanneau 49. Night and day.

I disagree somewhat. My 86 300e has 330,000 miles, is built like a tank, drives like it was new and I have all of the convenience features I need or want. I also get 20 MPG on the highway. My 85 Pearson 303 is in the same league.

I believe boats are in the same category.

[SVAdventuress]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This Bristol 27 crossed three oceans. The boat is a 1973 and was purchased for $1,000.

It's a Bristol so it was well built.

It was loaded with electronics to include a homemade autopilot built by the owner now called a Pypilot. The motor was a windshield wiper motor from a car.

https://pypilot.org/

It also had 600 watts of solar for power and a SSB receiver which was for weather reports I believe.

Yeah that was Sean. He and the roaches had an interesting relationship on that boat. Hats off to his ingenuity.

[masteriti]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So far our marina only requires liability of $500,000.

If they change their rule, I'll move away from the city some.

I bought the boat at a marina / boatyard that didn't require any insurance.

I have my boat at Skipjack Cove (North Chesapeake) and they required $300K liability...and it's a nice Marina with nice boats. But I guess if your marina caters to $1M+ yachts they may want more coverage.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Duxa

Quick disclaimer. I dont know the first thing about sailboats. We are just now starting our journey and are simply trying to learn 'the sheets'

We are seeing boats for sale from mid last century. Some of them are quite nice actually. So I am going to make an assumption (please correct me if its wildly wrong).

Production boats have not changed much in the last 50 years as far as getting you from point A to point B. Safety (structurally) is pretty much the same, speeds are the same? Things that changed are the layout, electronics etc... is this a correct assumption? I am not talking about $10 million state of the art Comanche (

), I am talking about run of the mill production boat, Catalina, Hunter, Benetau etc..

So. To someone like me... who doesnt know anything. It seems like a 20 year old boat would be old enough to need a major overhaul (electronics, wood etc..), and so then if for example a 1980 sailboat comes back with the same survey result as a 2005 sailboat. In other words, functionally it is in good shape, no issues with hull, no issues with all the important things (keel bolts etc), same number of engine hours... is there any reason to get the 2005 over 1980 ? Refit would probably cost the same? But a good chunk can be saved on initial purchase price?

This all of course assuming that you like the layout and look of the 1980 boat.

A quick google search yields that fiberglass is unaffected by most things.. and with gel coal on top even more so? so as far as structural integrity it seems like an older boat should be just as safe as a newer one.

Obviously this all assumes that these boats have been taken care of and werent just left sitting (hence survey is the same).

Please educate me. Thanks!

I have a 83 Dickerson Ketch, 3rd owner. The prior owners kept up with upgrades as I have for the next buyer. I don't think anyone should fear a quality built vessel at 40 yrs, if a good survey and apparent that upkeep was done by prior owners. Some of the older vessels are built superior to current ones. IMHO

[Rob19321]

Hi, most other comments are stronger than mine but I'd suggest that its simply not able to be assessed on "a single criteria, especially age."

From the others;
- Brand
- Prior maintenance (Quite intangible, based on subjective sellers)
- Hull, as someone else noted is not as subject to age as engine, sails, etc
(Note on Hull: There seems "eras of boat building" and I may be off a bit but generally,
1. Wood up to 1960's
2. Fiberglass over Wood 1970's ish to 1980's
3. Fiberglass only 1990's
(There are sailors who prefer each era for their own reasons.)

- Engine better assessed on total hours, and maintenance records.
- Sails - often outside the scope of a survey.... depending on surveyor, but can be nailed down by a sail maker for $120


------------------
Any and all of these are coddled by your intended use...
Only one example before I kicked off the group for lengthy posts.
Old inboard engine doesn't matter to me if I cruise a weekend at a time and have an outboard on the back as a backup... its' absolutely essential if crossing oceans.

[CarlF]

The quality of the original build matters a lot. 40 year old Hinckley's, Little Harbors and Shannons are barely middle age. A 20 year old boat built to have a low price at a boat show are often nightmares to own.

Replacing equipment after you buy the boat is 4x-10x the extra that was in the purchase price if the previous owner had done it. It's always cheaper over the long haul to buy the more expensive boat that needs less upgrading or repair.

The surveyor will not find everything. There will be surprises after you own the boat and upgrades that you decide you must have. Most owners spend $20k+ after purchase in the first 12 months. Don't kid yourself that this won't happen.

40 year old boats tend to have more wood in them than 20 year old boats (both core and structural). This is only a problem if there's rot - and rot is very expensive and/or time consuming to fix. Tell the surveyor to spend most of his time looking for rot, delamination, or structural issues instead of spending time checking lightbulbs and hose clamps.

Look carefully at whether the boat was designed with good access. A good test is how hard is it to remove the engine or tanks? Do panels unscrew or do you have to take a sawzall to the interior?