22' vs 25' vs 27'

[dmdelorme]

i started with a Tanzer 26 price about $6000 CAD. easy to sail with one person enough room for a couple and 2 kids. A 22 will be cramped day sailor. i have a honda 9.9 very reliable and easy to dock and get out. I sail lake Winnipeg in 25 knot winds and had no issues. don't spend a lot of money on do-dads they are just a wast of money. i added a few clutches $400, 2 winches for the cabin top $200. you can find nicely equipped ones and no work for a reasonable price. I think one in our marina went for $3000 this spring it was well equipped with a older motor. This way you can find out if you like it then buy a more substantial boat and sell the Tanzer to some one else for a reasonable price so they can learn.

[Happ]

You spoke about getting an autopilot. In that case I highly recommend you get a boat with a tiller. You get get a new tiller auto pilot for around $600-$700. They come with the plug and mounting bracket. Add wire and you’re done. Tie the wire in to your circuit panel. I found a flexible 15 watt solar panel that I would put out to charge the battery between sails.

I agree go with the 27. In a short time you will have grown your experience. Keep going out with friends for those races. You will learn a lot about sail and boat trim..

[thomm225]

Actually for an electrical tiller autopilot the price is closer to $400.00 or less so tiller steering is definitely the way to go on a smaller sailboat say 35' and under for coastal cruising/day sailing.

[jrau18]

I missed where you are from or what kind of water you plan to sail in.

I had a similar story when I bought my first keelboat: grew up sailing some small dinghies.

I was in the SF bay area, so after renting a handful of boats, I decided to get a 30ish foot boat. We can get some significant wind and chop on a typical summer day, so that size I felt was the sweet spot between handling pretty much any summer day on the bay and feeling like a smaller boat. I had a Cal 29, which probably handles similarly to the 27 foot boats you listed.

On the other hand, I've rented some 22 foot boats in my area, and they can be awfully fun if you're into the dinghy sailing feeling and don't mind getting a bit lively and wet.

If I lived somewhere inland or was going to trailer, there is no doubt in my mind that the 22 to 25 foot range is where it is as. Rougher areas and keeping the boat in the water, 30ish feet.

Also if you plan to spend the night ever, the larger size will be appreciated, although I have some friends that do overnights in the bay on their 20 footer.

At the end of the day, I think you should just go out in your intended sailing area and try a few different boats for sale. That will tell you more than any of us can. That might mean renting a few boats. I'd also recommend getting yourself comfortable on keelboats prior to purchasing. Since you're comfortable sailing dinghies, you'll very quickly learn and get comfortable on the slightly larger boats.

Also, you might consider skipping the classes. I combined my dinghy sailing experience with a lot of reading when I started and felt it was perfectly sufficient to get out sailing safely in my local waters. I did end up taking classes about a decade later, because my wife wanted to learn and I didn't think I was going to be a good teacher. I felt I picked up a few details in the classes, but there isn't much you can't learn on your own. Going from competent dinghy sailor to competent small keelboat sailor isn't a big leap, mostly a bunch of safety things to learn, man overboard drills, safely handling sheets with heavier loads, docking, some basic navigation skills you didn't need before, etc.

[Hamish_ct]

I sail in LIS. First thing. Forget about the autopilot, you don't need it for what you will be doing in LIS up to the Cape and all the in between.

I would recommend, depending on the size and what you can tow, get a trailer. It will save you $1000s in storage by keeping the boat on the trailer in the winter.

The boats you mentioned are good, Cal's are popular, easy to get parts and sails. You're not going to race the Cal? you can, 230+ PHRF so a slow boat in the LIS fleets, even for Wed night Racing.

There is a cost as you get bigger, bigger is always better for a boat to be "wife" friendly.

If you are going to keep it on a mooring and want to really cruise, I would suggest a Cal 30. Tons of them on the sound, they are tough boats and easy to handle. Again, not a great racer/cruiser although people do it, nice interior, not expensive to buy or to own.

Good luck, hope to see you out there.

Fair winds

[sail4evr]

I'm a former sailing instructor. I learned, took th ASA courses on a J-24. and qualified as an instructor. I'd recomend a J-24. It's been a boat used very often in sailing schools for upwards of 20 years. It has all the rigging you would expect to find on a bigger boat including spinaker. There are still local, national and class races. Where in LIS are you? There is an upgrade path to larger J boats when you are ready. After 4 or 5 years on a J-24 I moved to a 35ft sailboat, got my Captain's license, moved up to a 44ft catamaran doing charters in the Caribbean. Living the Life.
However I would put your #2 before #1. Most schools that teach have boats you can rent. WHen you graduate a ASA 101 keelboat course they expect you to be abe to single hand and practice on their boats. I would start with that until you are comfortable. Nothing will make your wife more nervous than seeing you nervous and hesitating when it comes to decision making especially whenit comes to right of way and you are in a small sailboat and some a-hole power boater with a few 2 many beers who never took a course is bearing down on you and your kids and wife start screamng. Those need to be your priorities before you rush your famiy into a bigger boat. On the sside...do your children and wife know how to swim? That needs to be a priority. Since your family and kids are a priority I would start with a small power boat to learn the rules and simplicity of motoring (take the free Power Squadron Course) and you will have enough attention left over to make sure your family is having a good time. If they don't have a good time they will make you give it up for sure. Nothing to stop you from taking your sailboat lessons, doing your single handed sailing on the side while you make sure your family is having a good time on the water the rest of the time that you spend with them. Be safe and be smart!

[delucia]

Originally Posted by Kyriebuckets

Hi All - New here, thought I would start by asking a question that's probably been asked 100x before! I've started crewing on some friends boats and been out for some day sails - I'm hooked. Gonna spend the next few months boat shopping and looking for some high level guidance.

About me: Mid 30s, been on water whole life, sailed some sunfish and lasers growing up. But before crewing a little for races, that's the extent of my sailing experience. I'm gonna take keelboat 101, etc. Location is LIS.

Goals, in order of importance:
1. Enjoy time with wife + kids (2 and 4). Relax, picnics, swimming, invite some friends out, etc. Low/No capsize risk, stable. This will be a giant failure if they don't enjoy the boat. Wife is excited, but don't want to scare her.
2. Learn to sail. Most advice is smaller is better - how true is that if I've ruled out the dinghy per above?
3. Single-hand a bunch. Will invest in auto-pilot, self tailing, etc. How much different are the 22's vs the 27's here?
4. Lose some beer can races. People seem to say that you only learn to sail via dinghy or races.

Details:
- 1-5 year starter boat. Would like to be able to re-sell without a 2 year process.
- Don't need a trailer, will be on a mooring, but might be nice for resale.
- More concerned with total cost-to-own than price of boat. If i'm reasonably confident it'll retain value, happy to spend a little more, up to 20k-ish?

Where should I focus my search? I'm thinking condition and location will be the biggest influence on the exact model, so more interested in advice for size/type at this point.

Choices:
22'ish boats that are a bit more mangageable:
Catalina 22, Tanzer 22, Ranger 23

25'ish boats that sail well, with outboards, less maintenance, and fewer systems:
Catalina 25, Ericson 25+, Ranger 26

27'ish entry level cruisers, diesels, full systems:
Catalina 27, Pearson 27, et al

Crazy:
I kinda like the Nonsuch's. If I went nonsuch 22 (or even 26), would I be learning enough for my next boat to be a 30-32' sloop given the simpler/different rig? I know they're $$$.

Thanks for all your help!

I went from lasers and smaller day sailors to a Catalina 25 as my 'training boat'. It was a great move. The Cat 25 are affordable, lots of online support and parts, great for overnights and super stable. Just sold it last year and moved up to a 36 footer. I'm a fan of the Catalina 25; great for your family.

[MurrayC]

27 feet is not to big to begin with - get the biggest boat you can afford. Asil the boat for at least one season before adding updates - more doodads don't always add up to more pleasure.
think carefully about the mooring. Visualize how an outing with the family will work out. You row out alone and land alone to pick up family? You all row out in choppy water and arrive on board wet. You get a little outboard. You don't go at all. A marina is much nicer if you can afford it. Plan how not to scare wife and kids. Use a small jib for the first years. Study boat construction and surveying i n books and on the web. Use a hammer to determine the extent of deck core damage. Don;'t get hung up on supposed quality differences between brands - they are pretty well all susceptible to deck damage including Nonsuchs

[David Mathis]

Boats that are comfortable, adequate, manageable, etc. for the first few weekends can quickly become too small as you become more confident sailing it and start to have more guests aboard. Your first boat is almost always too small after the first year. Go for the comfort and stability.

[AKA-None]

Since your wife doesn’t care for healing may I suggest you practice sailing as flat as you can.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Since your wife doesn’t care for healing may I suggest you practice sailing as flat as you can.

[NormanMartin]

Welcome.

My daughter went through the same exercise a few years ago. One kid loves sailing the other not so much. Hubby plays golf avidly and can't swim. Complications. She bought a 24 foot O'Day that is newish. Everyone loves it.

Her boat has a head with a door and a roomy cockpit. Everyone loves it. No snob appeal but everyone loves it. Sails on LIS. No trouble going for a family sail because... you guessed it... everybody loves it.

I have a very sexy 33 foot race boat, no door for head and a tiny cockpit. Very sexy, lots of snob appeal but... (My wife and I love to rough it cruise and double hand race so our boat is perfect for us though not for the rest of the family.)

I just picked up an Ensign class 22 footer for the other daughter and her family. It has a big cockpit and a door!

It is all about stake-holder buy in.

Norm

[upstateny]

Whatever you buy have someone knowledgeable inspect it.


Check out this video DIY Rigging Check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tMB0xnaeQ

[upstateny]

Here are some other great videos for new boat owners

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gld7BgTG8n8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1zAY_1RL0

[barnakiel]

22 small, 25 OK, 27 big enough.


b.