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yeloya · 03-03-2019, 12:11

The plan "A" is to leave Gibraltar around Late October to head south, turn around South Africa, South od New Zealand and head towards Chilian cost. One alternative is to stay at 40 's lattitude and go to Peurto Montt and desecend via Beagle Channel, round the Cape Horn. Or, if the wheaher permits directly head to Cape Horn. The boat is 2013 Catana 47 carbon catamaran. She's a very solid , fast boat and will be equipped with all what is necessary (AIS, radar, water maker, heating, genset, satellite phone, etc ) I've done over 50.000 nm mostly in the Med but also made the Atlantic passage twice in both ways in a 44 ft catamaran.
I don't intend to stop anywhere unless I am forced to and/or just for replenishing water, fuel, food..
The time is limited 6 to max 7 months to be back to Gibraltar.

The plan "B" is to start from Gibraltar and descent to Cape Horn from the east coast of South America. Then the Beagle channel upwards, turn west head to Australia. As the Gulf of Aden is out of question because of piracy, we will have to turn Cape Town , up to Azores and Gibraltar.
I would assume this route will take longer..

Any toughts / comments, particulalry from those who did either route ?

Cheers

Yeloya

jdazey · 24-04-2019, 08:11

This sounds like an ambitious plan given the time allowed. Have you done any reinforcements to the hull of the Catana? What type of heater are you using?

All in all, sounds like a great trip.

Cheers,

maxingout · 24-04-2019, 09:38

Wow. Amazing trip.

You are going to put your catamaran to the test in the high southern latitudes. I look forward to following your progress.

We did the Red Sea in 2005 without a problem. I don't know if I would do the Red Sea at the present time.

My highest lattitude was the north island of New Zealand. Even that was a bit cold for me, and I missed the tradewinds.

Your southerly route will give you multiple opportunities to use various drogues and the occasional parachute should the need arise.

Good luck on your adventure.

yeloya · 24-04-2019, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdazey

This sounds like an ambitious plan given the time allowed. Have you done any reinforcements to the hull of the Catana? What type of heater are you using?

All in all, sounds like a great trip.

Cheers,

Well I didn't plan any reinforcement. I know even some F's and LAgoons have made it without it. I also know that swiss faimily on FP Salina has made it with a kevlar reinforcement below water level. Well they did both the northern passage and the Cape Horn.
I don't have any heating yet beside reverse A/C but I know this would be far from being sufficient. I paln to put Webasto diesel heater on both hulls but even this would be barely sufficient. As I don't plan to spend long time there , I hope this won't be the biggest issue.

The main problem is to find a crew. In offshore passage I rarely helm and rely on AP, but in Southern Ocean one would to need 24/24 and for this we need at least 3 or 4 capable persons which is not easy to get..

Cheers

Yeloya

MikeFergie · 24-04-2019, 14:00

I got to meet and keep in touch with a British retired guy that passed my way (mozambique) with his catana 43 and sailed to Cape Town then Brazil, then Argentina round Cape Horn spend some time in Pategonia then up to Panema. 2 of them on the boat and nothing else special done for the trip

Breaking Waves · 24-04-2019, 14:35

>> South Africa, South od New Zealand and head towards Chilian cost. . . . wheaher permits directly head to Cape Horn

Just be forewarned ..... This is a long tough route. It will be cold. The weather is not settled - you do a lot of sail handling. You will have both dead calms with big swells, and gales. I describe it as living in shades of grey - which reflects both the weather and your emotional state. It is hard on crew and hard on boats. You surely already know this intellectually but you should make sure you truly understand it viscerally.

>>Peurto Montt and desecend via Beagle Channel, round the Cape Horn.

You may want to do a bit more research on chile/Patagonia. The Beagle channel does not run north/south. It is a relatively short east/west channel just north of the horn. You should try to get a copy of the chile cruising 'bible' if you are thinking of sailing there Patagonia & Tierra Del Fuego Nautical Gde 3RD ED

The boat is 2013 Catana 47 carbon catamaran. She's a very solid , fast boat and will be equipped with all what is necessary (AIS, radar, water maker, heating, genset, satellite phone, etc ).

I am not sure your priorities are exactly correct if that is your list of 'what is necessary'. just for example - AIS is not going to be that useful down there. Neither is radar. And you may be aware that watermakers don't work as well in cold water, while it rains a ton down there. What is necessary to make sure is your boat can sail continuous 7 x 24 in difficult highly variable conditions. You need super highly reliable self-steering with lots of spare parts for it. You need to make sure that all the parts of the boat which will work sailing in a in 6m swell are reinforced and will not fatigued. You need sails and sail handling systems which allow you to sail from 4kts to 50 kts, and which are easy/dead simple to switch up and down, also while you are in 6m swell. You need reliable dry heat with enough fuel to run it for as long as you are in the south - or be ready and tough enough to just live in the cold/wet.

>>I've done over 50.000 nm mostly in the Med but also made the Atlantic passage twice in both ways in a 44 ft catamaran.

Nice sailing. But got to say it is entirely totally different than the med, and quite different than the Atlantic (where you do not have the same sort of large swell/wave patterns from multiple directions, nor the cold from the artic convergence, nor the continuous set of lows).

>> I don't intend to stop anywhere unless I am forced to and/or just for replenishing water, fuel, food.. The time is limited 6 to max 7 months to be back to Gibraltar.

Very honestly, I think the odds suggest something important will break on your boat, or your crew will want to give up. It is entirely different sailing for say 20 days on an atlantic crossing than for several months non-stop. There is a sort of psychologic critical point at about 50 days at sea, many people just have had enough by then, a few just love it and want to continue.

I should say very plainly I am not trying to be discouraging. Prepare your boat and yourselves as well as possible and give it a go - that's what life is for. But you asked for feedback and I am trying to be honest and plain about what it is like.

>>The plan "B" is to start from Gibraltar and descent to Cape Horn from the east coast of South America. Then the Beagle channel upwards, turn west head to Australia. .... Cape Town , up to Azores and Gibraltar.
I would assume this route will take longer..

This is a much easier and more pleasant route. Getting by horn by using the beagle short cut means you avoid the very worst part of a 5 capes RTW. (note: again - the beagle is just a short east-west channel at the bottom, cutting off horn - it is not the name of the channel system that takes you north).

yeloya · 25-04-2019, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

>> South Africa, South od New Zealand and head towards Chilian cost. . . . wheaher permits directly head to Cape Horn

Just be forewarned ..... This is a long tough route. It will be cold. The weather is not settled - you do a lot of sail handling. You will have both dead calms with big swells, and gales. I describe it as living in shades of grey - which reflects both the weather and your emotional state. It is hard on crew and hard on boats. You surely already know this intellectually but you should make sure you truly understand it viscerally.

>>Peurto Montt and desecend via Beagle Channel, round the Cape Horn.

You may want to do a bit more research on chile/Patagonia. The Beagle channel does not run north/south. It is a relatively short east/west channel just north of the horn. You should try to get a copy of the chile cruising 'bible' if you are thinking of sailing there Patagonia & Tierra Del Fuego Nautical Gde 3RD ED

The boat is 2013 Catana 47 carbon catamaran. She's a very solid , fast boat and will be equipped with all what is necessary (AIS, radar, water maker, heating, genset, satellite phone, etc ).

I am not sure your priorities are exactly correct if that is your list of 'what is necessary'. just for example - AIS is not going to be that useful down there. Neither is radar. And you may be aware that watermakers don't work as well in cold water, while it rains a ton down there. What is necessary to make sure is your boat can sail continuous 7 x 24 in difficult highly variable conditions. You need super highly reliable self-steering with lots of spare parts for it. You need to make sure that all the parts of the boat which will work sailing in a in 6m swell are reinforced and will not fatigued. You need sails and sail handling systems which allow you to sail from 4kts to 50 kts, and which are easy/dead simple to switch up and down, also while you are in 6m swell. You need reliable dry heat with enough fuel to run it for as long as you are in the south - or be ready and tough enough to just live in the cold/wet.

>>I've done over 50.000 nm mostly in the Med but also made the Atlantic passage twice in both ways in a 44 ft catamaran.

Nice sailing. But got to say it is entirely totally different than the med, and quite different than the Atlantic (where you do not have the same sort of large swell/wave patterns from multiple directions, nor the cold from the artic convergence, nor the continuous set of lows).

>> I don't intend to stop anywhere unless I am forced to and/or just for replenishing water, fuel, food.. The time is limited 6 to max 7 months to be back to Gibraltar.

Very honestly, I think the odds suggest something important will break on your boat, or your crew will want to give up. It is entirely different sailing for say 20 days on an atlantic crossing than for several months non-stop. There is a sort of psychologic critical point at about 50 days at sea, many people just have had enough by then, a few just love it and want to continue.

I should say very plainly I am not trying to be discouraging. Prepare your boat and yourselves as well as possible and give it a go - that's what life is for. But you asked for feedback and I am trying to be honest and plain about what it is like.

>>The plan "B" is to start from Gibraltar and descent to Cape Horn from the east coast of South America. Then the Beagle channel upwards, turn west head to Australia. .... Cape Town , up to Azores and Gibraltar.
I would assume this route will take longer..

This is a much easier and more pleasant route. Getting by horn by using the beagle short cut means you avoid the very worst part of a 5 capes RTW. (note: again - the beagle is just a short east-west channel at the bottom, cutting off horn - it is not the name of the channel system that takes you north).

Thanks a lot for all this info, I apreciate it.
Logically, approaching Cape Horn from the east should be more difficult as the prevailing winds are southeasterly. Nonetheless I see most boats are taking this route. This is probably because the sea state is better than southern ocean althought still tough.
I tend to belive that (and it might well be wrong) aproaching Cape Horn from the east shouldn't be much more challenging compared to other way around. Actually, what scares me has never been a wind. I sailed up to 50-5 ft in a 43 ft mono and up to 50 kts with a catamaran w/out any issue. The problem is the sea state;as you said Atlantic is different, I've sailed in 6 meters waves surfing at 25 kts of speed under A/P with a 43 ft cat. The southern ocean is a different matter and I am trying to figure out how the boat will behave with huge breakiing waves.
Cats have some adventages on this route; mine can be reefed and unreefed easily from the cockpit w/out visiting the mast, has only 1 m draft with the dagger boards up. I did singlehanded sustained 13-14 kts of speed on a 4 meters short waves of the Med. She is also good on light winds. The trouble is that heating the cat is much more difficult than a mono. Cats do have a lot of exposed surface and volume...
I agree with you that staying on sea for 60 days can lead to many problems, starting from fuel, food and not the morale of the of the crew.
If I didn't make a mistake, none of my passages should last more than 35 days with a 160-170 nm/day. (with much slower charter cat on my Atlantic trip I averaged 160 nm from Canaries to St Lucia and and 185 nm from Tortolla to Gibraltar) Obviously if there is any problem we may not even be able to do it at all

Thx again for the infos.

Cheers

Yeloya

Breaking Waves · 25-04-2019, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeloya

>>Cape Horn from the east should be more difficult as the prevailing winds >>are southeasterly.

Yes and that is true if you are trying to double the horn offshore non-stop - it is often quite a bit harder from the east. But most non-racers coming from the east stop and/or use the beagle to wait for favorable weather and/or short cut the horn, which makes it a bunch less tricky. Most non-racers coming from the west will go outside non-stop (or into like Puerto Montt) because it is usually with the winds and the western entry into the beagle is a lee shore with a garden of hidden rocks.

I have never done any offshore work down there in a multi your size. I have been there on for one passage a G-Class, but that is a whole nother thing, not at all relevant to the real world

But so, I can't comment from personal experience about what you will face with the cat, but given the pretty continuous swell I would expect the boat to rack and work perhaps a factor of several times more than it does ion a north Atlantic passage.

>>none of my passages should last more than 35 days with a 160-170 nm/day.

Ah, I misunderstood your post then. I thought you were aiming to do really really long non-stops, like perhaps only a one-stop round the world.
Max 35 days with the opportunity to rest crew and fix boat is rather less 'crazy'.

I wish you the best of luck.

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