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Old 11-10-2021, 21:40   #16
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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I'm not sure how "great (a) time" the Brits or anyone had that far south.

And regarding choice of transportation, I think Scott was trying to find an alternative to animals in those extremes, on the logic or emotion that men had the choice to put themselves in suffering and life threatening conditions, but the animals did not.

The book "The Worst Journey in the World" illustrates both points.
He tried to use horses which I tend to believe are still considered to be animals.
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Old 11-10-2021, 21:53   #17
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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He tried to use horses which I tend to believe are still considered to be animals.
although scott did use manchurian horse and dog teams, he was the first to try motorised transport so at least he was attempting to find an alternative

incidentally, Fridtjof Nansen was the first explorer to use horses in polar regions when he crossed greenland in 1888

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Old 11-10-2021, 23:21   #18
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

Thanks for all the info and great photos!
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:02   #19
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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He tried to use horses which I tend to believe are still considered to be animals.
Bright one, aren't you?

Yes he had ponies, but the experimenting with motorised transport was to reduce the use of animals for future polar exploration.

It is tragic reading of what happened to many of these ponies.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:47   #20
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

The RCMP patrol and resupply ship St. Roch: second ship through the Northwest Passage (after Amundsen's Gjoa), first ship to do it west to east, and first to circumnavigate North America (via the arctic and the Panama Canal) clockwise, then counter clockwise.

The round hull design was copied from the Hudson Bay Company ship Maud, which in turn was copied from Gjoa. It allowed St. Roch to be pushed up by the ice, usually every second winter when she was frozen in and used as an RCMP detachment, rather than crushed, but it also caused her to roll terribly as she crossed the Gulf of Alaska and the Chukchi Sea to get from her home port in Vancouver or Victoria to the arctic. There were a great many new constables (on their way to their lonely arctic outposts for two years) who got very, very seasick on that boat!

She now sits indoors in the Vancouver Maritime Museum.


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Old 12-10-2021, 07:58   #21
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Boats trapped in ice

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Bright one, aren't you?



Yes he had ponies, but the experimenting with motorised transport was to reduce the use of animals for future polar exploration.



It is tragic reading of what happened to many of these ponies.


Scott was advised as to the unsuitability of horses for the intended journey. But a major factor was the British lack of experience with dog sled teams an area Amundsen was very familiar with.

I don’t think Scott was in any way concerned particularly about animal welfare though Oats clearly was. The motorised transport was simply ill advised and entirely unsuitable

That’s not to undermine a “ heroic “ effort but it was the last of the era of the “ amateur “ these days with high tech food , better nutrition and weather knowledge it’s all a bit of a doddle. In fact post ww1 the arrival of aircraft changed everything
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Old 12-10-2021, 08:29   #22
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Re: Boats trapped in ice



Interesting modern alternative.
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:19   #23
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

Surprised no one has mentioned Bob Bartlett and/or Stephenson.

Two of the worlds most famous people 100 years ago.

Bartlett was the #1 East Coast ice navigator, and Stephenson the premier arctic explorer. Stephenson talked Bartlett into and ill fated expedition, got the ship stuck in ice, then abandoned the expedition to do his own thing, which was itself quite remarkable. Bartletts tale rivals, and I believe surpasses Shackeltons.
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Old 12-10-2021, 13:27   #24
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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Bright one, aren't you?

Yes he had ponies, but the experimenting with motorised transport was to reduce the use of animals for future polar exploration.

It is tragic reading of what happened to many of these ponies.
One does not require a high IQ to recognize that horses are animals although there are those who lack the common sense to realize it.

Sled dogs were used in Antarctica until fairly recent times and were only removed because the Antarctic Treaty required it.

In an emergency dog meat is far easier to masticate than cast iron or steel.
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Old 12-10-2021, 13:29   #25
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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One does not require a high IQ to recognize that horses are animals although there are those who lack the common sense to realize it.

Sled dogs were used in Antarctica until fairly recent times and were only removed because the Antarctic Treaty required it.

In an emergency dog meat is far easier to masticate than cast iron or steel.
Just avoid the liver.
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Old 12-10-2021, 13:29   #26
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

I've read of Inuit people talking about the advantages and disadvantages of snow machines and sled dogs. One older man made a clear point, that in an emergency, you can't eat your snow machine.

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Old 12-10-2021, 13:42   #27
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

I have a book on my boat - can't recall the author - 'Three Got Through' written by one of a team of three englishmen that legged it across the Greenland ice cap in the '30s.
Their sled dogs weren't emergency rations - they were a part of the rations.
As they consumed the stores on the sleds and the requirement for sleds and sled dogs diminished so they abandoned sleds and ate the dogs.
He said it was a bit hard - eating puppies in front of their mothers.
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Old 13-10-2021, 08:37   #28
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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Surprised no one has mentioned Bob Bartlett and/or Stephenson.

Two of the worlds most famous people 100 years ago.

Bartlett was the #1 East Coast ice navigator, and Stephenson the premier arctic explorer. Stephenson talked Bartlett into and ill fated expedition, got the ship stuck in ice, then abandoned the expedition to do his own thing, which was itself quite remarkable. Bartletts tale rivals, and I believe surpasses Shackeltons.
Bartlett was indeed a great ice captain. Not sure how you would pick the best. There were many of them. He did have a sense of adventure that probably allowed him to acquire the funding required. Many of the sealing captains could have done the same had it not been for the money to be made in that field. I'm just thinking of the ones here in Newfoundland and Labrador as I'm not as familiar with the Northern European captains which I'm guessing were many as well. Bartlett can be seen in a movie called the Viking. It was made by a filmmaker named Varrick Frissell I do believe. A great man but terrible actor but props for doing it. The movie contains some good footage of the conditions encountered. Frissell was killed during the second season of filming when an errant cigarette ignited the dynamite which had been stored in the head. It's been a lot of years since I watched my wife's uncle's copy but I seem to remember dynamite being used to free the ship. Think it's accessible at the National Film Board or through the CBC.
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Old 13-10-2021, 09:46   #29
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

Norton,
Yes on “best”. I was thinking of the contemporary exploration crowd.

Apparently he was just average in the family.

I will look for that movie, I have heard of it but not seen it.

Re: Shackelton

From my reading he was quite the gigalo, getting funding to keep him away from the Wife.

While Incan’t recall his name Shackeltons Captain is a man of high regard. He had a tough draw.
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Old 13-10-2021, 11:33   #30
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Re: Boats trapped in ice

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He tried to use horses which I tend to believe are still considered to be animals.
and quite tasty, some of them
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