Crew Available: Due Diligence Advice

[SeanTL]

Greetings To All,

I'm a newbie here with some limited sailing experience from years back in the lakes located near my home in Toronto, Canada.

I have long wanted to expand my experience by joining a boat for some blue-water, ocean sailing, and to that end, have been communicating with a number of captains as a potential crew member on their journeys.

My question concerns what due diligence others here would recommend doing, regarding these contacts, before accepting a crew position on one of these boats?

I have asked about the basics, including their experience, safety equipment on board and how they operate in terms of expense and task sharing, but I'm wondering how much further research is recommended, given that I would be living, 24/7, in close quarters with people who, until I join them on board, are strangers to me.

Any and all advice is appreciated!

Fair Winds,
Sean

[mvweebles]

No magic here - spend as much time as it takes to be comfortable that their plans align well with your expectations. Get a resume, references, and do a back-ground check. A mere hint of substance abuse issues should be strongly considered.

I spent about 5-years as a full-time delivery captain and while I never had possible crew put me through a due diligence wringer as I always knew them at least casually, it would not have bothered me if they had wanted to take an extra bit of caution. I might have even considered it a positive thing.

Good luck and be careful.

Peter

[SeanTL]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can certainly ask for these things, although, I doubt many captains will have a resume at the ready - but I'll see what answers I get.

What do you suggest for a "background check", aside from references and/or resume?

I'm also thinking I should have their names, contact information and the planned sailing itinerary, to be left with someone I trust at home, as a measure of safety.

Thanks Again,
Sean

[AiniA]

I think getting references from former crew should do it, along with the other things you mentioned. It is not a sure thing, crew may not work out, captain may not.

[SeanTL]

Thanks AiniA - that makes sense to me.

And yes, there are no guarantees, I'm just thinking about doing this to get the odds of a good experience a little more in my favor.

Cheers,
Sean

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by SeanTL

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can certainly ask for these things, although, I doubt many captains will have a resume at the ready - but I'll see what answers I get.

What do you suggest for a "background check", aside from references and/or resume?

I'm also thinking I should have their names, contact information and the planned sailing itinerary, to be left with someone I trust at home, as a measure of safety.

Thanks Again,
Sean

I was thinking a criminal background check and credit check - about $35 online as I recall. I have a small rental property and will sometimes do a background check.

If someone has zero footprint or very light footprint, no yachtclubs, no LinkedIn, no FB, etc. no job history, well, you'll have to decide if that's okay with you. Would not be with me for more than a day-sail. BTW - doing say-sails are a pretty good way to at least start the process. But if you have to fly to some distant land to meet-up, well, you might want to be extra careful.

There may be local mixers too - I grew-up sailing, then delivering out of San Francisco. Latitude38, the best sailing magazine on the planet, used to do crew-meet parties. Just meet/greet affairs. There are still horror stories of Jekyll/Hyde proportions, but they were the rare exception.

Another decent first-step would be accompanying someone on a longish rally with multiple boats. Salty Dawgs, Panama Posse, or Baja Ha Ha. YOu would stand a decent chance of hopping an alterative ride if your captain turned into a Bligh.

I assume from your name/moniker that you are a male. If female, stakes are 1000% higher.

Good luck

Peter

[SeanTL]

Yes, I had thought about the criminal background check too, (I also own and manage a rental property and have to do these kinds of searches often).

However, it is not easy to get anyone to submit to this, even in the apartment rental business, as all kinds of private information is required, (including a social insurance number here in Canada), which is a sensitive matter in this day and age.

Accordingly, I'd feel a little awkward about asking strangers for this, for this purpose - and doubt I'd get a lot of cooperation to be honest.

The other ideas are all good ones, but in this instance, I would be flying a long way from home to join strangers on a long, ocean-crossing trip, so it's a bit of a roll of the dice.

I think the references suggestion from former crew is my best approach here, but I will certainly ask for a resume / qualifications / experience.

One of the boats I'm talking with will be sailing about the Caribbean prior to going through Panama and crossing the Pacific, so I would have the chance to sail with them a bit there and could make a go/no-go decision prior to leaving Panama.

Also, they report that they are sailing with a couple of other boats as a group, so I would have the opportunity to talk with the other people and possibly even transfer over if things turned pear-shaped on the boat I'm looking at joining.

If worse comes worst, I'd simply deboard and do some backpacking in Central America - as I do a lot of that kind of travelling pre-covid times.

Thanks for all of your input and ideas. There are no guarantees, so you're right, I'll need to be careful.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by SeanTL

Yes, I had thought about the criminal background check too, (I also own and manage a rental property and have to do these kinds of searches often).

However, it is not easy to get anyone to submit to this, even in the apartment rental business, as all kinds of private information is required, (including a social insurance number here in Canada), which is a sensitive matter in this day and age.

Accordingly, I'd feel a little awkward about asking strangers for this, for this purpose - and doubt I'd get a lot of cooperation to be honest.

The other ideas are all good ones, but in this instance, I would be flying a long way from home to join strangers on a long, ocean-crossing trip, so it's a bit of a roll of the dice.

I think the references suggestion from former crew is my best approach here, but I will certainly ask for a resume / qualifications / experience.

One of the boats I'm talking with will be sailing about the Caribbean prior to going through Panama and crossing the Pacific, so I would have the chance to sail with them a bit there and could make a go/no-go decision prior to leaving Panama.

Also, they report that they are sailing with a couple of other boats as a group, so I would have the opportunity to talk with the other people and possibly even transfer over if things turned pear-shaped on the boat I'm looking at joining.

If worse comes worst, I'd simply deboard and do some backpacking in Central America - as I do a lot of that kind of travelling pre-covid times.

Thanks for all of your input and ideas. There are no guarantees, so you're right, I'll need to be careful.

Not always easy to separate from a boat. The local authorities count noses and want to know the comings and goings. Not a huge deal to get off the boat's roster, but you will often need a plane ticket out before they will release you and the boat. It's not like the US.

Ask your friends and people you trust if they'd feel offended if, under similar circumstances, someone wanted to run a background check. Frankly, I'd want it on you if I were the boat captain - there are a number of ways you can jam-up the captain. If you commit a crime somewhere, the port captain is within his rights to seize the boat until it's all sorted out. This is a trust-but-verify moment.

I hate to say this out loud, but there are few whacko's in the boating community. You really need a better plan on how to triage them. Better safe than sorry.

Peter

[SeanTL]

Hi Peter,

Thanks again - all good advice which I will keep in mind and take to heart.

I am aware that many countries the world over require proof of onward travel - that's not an issue as I know how to handle this situation from travelling about the planet over the last few years.

As for asking captains for all of the personal information - the things needed to extract a criminal check and credit report - I doubt very much many would oblige me due to the dynamics of the situation - they typically have many people responding to offered positions aboard their boats, whereas I am a relative newbie competing with all of these other applicants.

Accordingly, as a captain, you or they can be picky and only consider those, like myself, that would be okay with providing the personal information necessary to allow a full background check. However, based on my experience with human nature, I do believe most captains would reject my request for them and move on to other interested, potential crew members.

It's an asymmetric interaction - at least at first - and although, in an ideal world, I could get criminal reports and credit checks from boat owners who I wanted to join to further my sailing experience, in reality I think this would be a non-starter.

But I'll ask you, have you advertised and taken on crew for a long-term trip, (who you didn't know before the trip), where they requested all this information of you beforehand? If so, did you comply and give them all your personal details so they could run these reports?

Do you know of other boat-owners and captains who have submitted to these requests from new crew members before taking them on in an extended sailing trip?

If so, then that's good information that I'll bear in mind, as I look for the appropriate sailing opportunity.

If not, then I think the best I can do is to check out as many personal references as I can find on them, (i.e. former crew, yachting association memberships, social media, google, etc.).

In any event, I will be as careful as I can be in all of this and appreciate your input.

Best To You,
Sean

[mvweebles]

Long trips for me were 7-14 day deliveries from SoCal to PNW. I had a pretty good stable of crew, but that's because I was active in the industry and many people knew me.

But if I were cruising some distance and looking for crew, finding the right person would be more difficult than you might think. Everyone says "just call me - I'm in!" Then you call, and the conversation is some variation of "aw jeez, I know I'm gonna regret it, but timing isnt good right now."

The worst crew I had aboard was a swede who was halfway through his second circumnavigation on a boat he'd built himself in South Africa. His wife had left him for a guy she'd worked with, and his boat - an Ingram ketch - was so slow that he customarily slept through his watch. He had lousy personal hygiene habits. Nice guy, but awful crew.

All I can tell you is every client I had (and/or their insurance company) asked for my bona fides. I would expect no less. Would not bother me a bit if crew asked the same question before signing on. In fact, would tell me they took their work seriously.

You are putting a lot of trust in the captain. You deserve to be as assured as possible as you pull away from the dock. There is plenty to worry about. Knowing your captain isn't a nut job shouldn't be one of them.

That said, if you're not comfortable asking, you're not comfortable asking. Would be awful if you had a regret along the way though. Substance abuse is the #1 problem I would worry about.

Peter

[SeanTL]

Those are interesting stories / experiences Peter!

I will do my best to get as much information as possible, and will talk plenty with everyone as that is also a good way to get a feel for the other people involved.

As I said, the most interesting opportunity I'm checking currently is a situation in which I'd have the opportunity to do some shorter sails in the Caribbean, while we all go ashore to experience the places we land. Accordingly, long before heading out across the Pacific, I'll have a good idea of whom I'm travelling with and whether I want to continue in terms of drug abuse, seamanship, equipment, personalities, money and, most importantly, safety.

Nonetheless, I will be asking for references and as much additional information I can get before flying down and meeting up.

Take Care,
Sean

[CaptainRivet]

my advice would be do a facetime or whatsup video call, talk about your expectation, talk about what happens when things go wrong (eg make an example and see whats happening). ALso the captain should show you the boat, photos tell nothing but a little indication but a video shows the reality. Don't tell him upfront you wanna have a boat tour and ask him spontaneosly. Like this you have a real picture if there is a choas like after bomb attack or if its clean like a surgery room. both tell you a lot about the captain and how daily life is on board.
And listen to your gut...does it feal good, then just do it. Don't overanalyze things.

Also have your own offshore lifevest as this is quite a personal item and the guest ones on boats are mostly not good and out of date.

When I hire crew I tell them to have their own lifevest and sign that its serviced, valid and they have worn it couple of days so the I know it fits welll. If your life vest is unconfortable, its a pita on long passsages and you tend to not put it on or suffer which has a mayor impact on your mood.

[Beach Panda]

This is a great thread. I'm in the process of going to a bigger sail boat, and will need at least 1 crew... possibly 2. So reading this gives me some perspective as to understanding both sides of the equation.

Also, as a man, and not wanting to deal with any of the worst of the Human Condition issues on a sail boat, I'm planning on Female Crew only... or a married couple.

For me, so far... no drinking on board, no drinking 12 hours ashore before departure, no smoking, and background checks with othe references & certifications are mandatory. I purposely don't have an electronic footprint for my own reasons, but I would happily exchange any information with my crew... whom I'd be responsible for... and they need to know that they are in a safe place too... with likewise minded people

[mvweebles]

Noonsite has links to find-a-crew sites. Here's one

https://www.findacrew.net/en/boat/se..._LLD&QckAvl=NF

Here's one for ARC, but appears to have more general too

https://oceancrewlink.com/

I'm sure there are others.

Peter

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by SeanTL

Any and all advice is appreciated!

Fair Winds,
Sean

As an owner, I would never let a stranger on my boat in the same way I would not let a stranger into my house. Even briefly. Similarly, I would never ask to be let on someone’s property, whether floating or stationary, if I do not know the owner well enough. Why some people do it, escapes me.
Commercial arrangements are different, it is like applying for a job - research the employer, interview them, get referrals.