Crew Wanted: Deliver 1984 Liberty 458 from Great Lakes to South Australia

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Have you considered shipping her? Expensive, but with a more certain outcome... and perhaps not that much more expensive if you count not needing some of the equipment upgrades and inevitable wear and tear on many expensive bits.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Yes, I have considered shipping her. The quote I have is from Port Everglades to Brisbane, QLD for about $55,000. The boat is only worth $120k. Besides getting her to Port Everglades, I'd also have about $10k for fumigation, cleaning, loading/Unloading, and quarantine. It gets pretty expensive for a 40-year-old boat. I have not ruled it out since, as you point out, it is the surest route with the least wear and tear. I suspect that if I got the boat down to FL and waited for a better offer, it might work out to be the most sensible approach.

Right now, I think the way this may be going is that I bring together a group of sailors who each commit to crewing (or skippering) a segment and, together, we get her to where I need her.

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by dlj

Pretty sure that boat was built in Asia.

dj

Yes, that's correct. She was built in the Shin Fa yard in Taiwan. Hull #10.

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by Montanan

FYI.

Items to include into your budget:

Yachts are subject to a general rate of duty of 5 per cent based on the customs value (basically the price paid) and 10 per cent goods and services tax (GST) calculated on the customs value plus international transport and insurance plus the 5% duty.

Privately imported yachts are generally valued using the transaction method of valuation when purchased overseas new or second-hand for export to Australia. Circumstances where we may use an alternative method of valuation include such situations as where:

the yacht was constructed by owner/labour;
the yacht has been extensively modified since purchase;
the purchaser and vendor are related parties and that relationship has influenced the purchase price; or
the original purchase price is too far removed in time.
In these instances the yacht will have to be valued by a marine surveyor in Australia. This valuation will be based on the market value and as such will include elements such as customs duty and GST. We'll have to deduct these elements plus overseas transport from the local valuation.

Where the yacht is sailed to Australia, overseas freight will be determined having regard to essential sailing costs incurred under the most commercially viable conditions. Such costs would include sailing expenditure necessarily incurred while the vessel is actually sailing (and entering and leaving) those ports of call on the most commercially viable route. It would not include any in port expenditure related to the vessel's period of stopover.

Where supported by sufficient/reliable information, essential sailing costs would also include:

cost of maps, charts pilot books, light/radio lists, etc.
crew's hire/wages or forage allowance in lieu
victualling or food costs (does not include tobacco and alcoholic beverages)
bunkering or oil/fuel costs.
This is an indicative rather than exhaustive list.


https://www.abf.gov.au/importing-exporting-and-manufacturing/importing/how-to-import/types-of-imports/importing-a-yacht

Thanks for this.

I think after 14 years of ownership (by the time the boat got to Australia) I could claim the "the original purchase price is too far removed in time." clause.

Interesting about 10% on shipping cost. It would be a tricky business trying to calculate the value of sailing to Aus. Every flight in/out of a port-of-call for volunteer crew?

In addition, she has teak decks, which will make the Australian quarantine folks anxious since insects could be harboured between the teak and the deck. I'm sure this is going to cost me plenty to resolve with fumigation or even possibly having to rip up the deck.

[boatman61]

Having done the trip taking a 54ftr from Florida to Perth via Panama I am tempted to throw my hat in the ring as a pro delivery skipper.. but bad experiences with the owner on arrival make me twitchy.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Having done the trip taking a 54ftr from Florida to Perth via Panama I am tempted to throw my hat in the ring as a pro delivery skipper.. but bad experiences with the owner on arrival make me twitchy.

Ha! I just sent the OP a note that I might be interested depending upon meeting him and seeing the boat. Now, if you get to be the delivery captain - I'd love to do at least one leg with you!

dj

[old pirate]

Originally Posted by molly1

Makes you wonder why anyone would want to import a yacht into Australia.
The only thing I disagree with is that there is no 5% import duty if the yacht was manufactured in USA.
It would be better to import it to New Zealand then visit Australia on a 2 year cruising permit stating that you plan to continue your journey and Australia is only a stop off. Then sail back to New Zealand and rinse and repeat.

Built in Taiwan.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Australis_458

Thanks for this.

I think after 14 years of ownership (by the time the boat got to Australia) I could claim the "the original purchase price is too far removed in time." clause.

Interesting about 10% on shipping cost. It would be a tricky business trying to calculate the value of sailing to Aus. Every flight in/out of a port-of-call for volunteer crew?

In addition, she has teak decks, which will make the Australian quarantine folks anxious since insects could be harboured between the teak and the deck. I'm sure this is going to cost me plenty to resolve with fumigation or even possibly having to rip up the deck.

So include in your budget the cost of a marine surveyor certified for customs duty valuation.

Indeed the cost of transport and of insurance will be very significant as it usually the case with bulky imported goods that travel by slow boat, or in your situation a bulky slow boat. Nothing slower than a sailed boat halfway across the globe.

CIF [Cost, Insurance, Freight] is the standard valuation for customs duty and customs duty is then added in to the value to calculate the value added "privilege" taxation.

The New Zealand cruise permit scheme is a viable work around and since one has voyaged from the Great Lakes the distance between OZ and NZ is comparably a day sail.

Enjoy, God Speed.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by dlj

Ha! I just sent the OP a note that I might be interested depending upon meeting him and seeing the boat. Now, if you get to be the delivery captain - I'd love to do at least one leg with you!

dj

Be careful what you wish for..

[MGRodems]

Hi Matt:

We met in Sault Ste. Marie (George Kemp Downtown Marina) in August of 2021. We sail the Irwin 43 Emerald Isle. I remember your big freezer in the cockpit.

We have left the Great Lakes, but have gone to Maine, the Chesapeake and currently heading to the Bahamas. If I were you I would sail the Bahamas and Carribbean first. You may scratch your winter season itch a lot easier in the Western Hemisphere.

Mike & Claudia

[boatman61]

^^^^^ a good suggestion for next year before you decide on Oz.. definitely cheaper.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Australis_458

I want to get my well-founded 1984 Liberty 458 "Australis" from the Great Lakes to South Australia sometime over the next few years. .....

I won't be throwing more than, say, $30k into this project.

As a former delivery captain, I will share what I would tell a prospective client.

It is assumed she has windvane steering, EPIRB, life raft, and a satellite system to get weather forecasts.

Let's do the math. My SWAG is that allowing for canal transit and weather this is a 3-4 month engagement. Let's use 3 months as a planning/budget baseline.

Any open ocean master worth a darn will charge at least $250-$300/day for 3+ month engagement. I used to charge more. (S)He needs at least one good crewman ($100/day). This assumes you can find a decent volunteer crewman. So $350 X 90= $31,500. Just for crew. Can you get cheaper? Sure, there are numerous threads about low ball masters who wreck boats.

Add to that provisioning and canal fees.

Add to that the fact that after running the Atlantic coast of the US and a transpac, the sails will have significant wear. If the boat is used 2 times a week for an average of cruising is 8 hours, the sails get 64 hours of use a month. they will be up for about 80 days or 1,920 hours. That equates to 2 1/2 years of use IF they get it done in 80 days.

Additionally, on a long delivery, stuff will wear and fail. Adding to your cost of the delivery. If something essential breaks away from a supply location, you could be paying crew to wait for a part, or specialized technician to fix the boat.

Finally, there is the cost of crew transport. You will need to either pay Ozzies to fly up, or fly North American crew back home.

Bottom line--- if this was a $500K yacht or specialized vessel, it would make sense. For a 40+ year old- $120K vessel it makes no financial sense to sail her down.

If you are really in love with her, get a price on having her loaded up and moved. Perhaps a hybrid of sailing her to NY, or the Chesapeake for loading would make sense.

[boatman61]

Two points I dispute in the above... a wind vane is not a pre-requisite, a quality AP is more than capable, neither is a satellite system for weather which is pretty stable between 05/10 Sth which is the line to Samoa after the Gallapagos.
But each to their own.

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Have you considered shipping her? Expensive, but with a more certain outcome... and perhaps not that much more expensive if you count not needing some of the equipment upgrades and inevitable wear and tear on many expensive bits.

Jim

Originally Posted by Montanan

So include in your budget the cost of a marine surveyor certified for customs duty valuation.

Indeed the cost of transport and of insurance will be very significant as it usually the case with bulky imported goods that travel by slow boat, or in your situation a bulky slow boat. Nothing slower than a sailed boat halfway across the globe.

CIF [Cost, Insurance, Freight] is the standard valuation for customs duty and customs duty is then added in to the value to calculate the value added "privilege" taxation.

The New Zealand cruise permit scheme is a viable work around and since one has voyaged from the Great Lakes the distance between OZ and NZ is comparably a day sail.

Enjoy, God Speed.

I think you're right and the CIF may be a deal breaker. Though the distance is not so great, crossing the Tasman Sea is no small undertaking. I don't think I've got it in me to be doing that every couple of years.

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by Snore

As a former delivery captain, I will share what I would tell a prospective client.

It is assumed she has windvane steering, EPIRB, life raft, and a satellite system to get weather forecasts.

Let's do the math. My SWAG is that allowing for canal transit and weather this is a 3-4 month engagement. Let's use 3 months as a planning/budget baseline.

Any open ocean master worth a darn will charge at least $250-$300/day for 3+ month engagement. I used to charge more. (S)He needs at least one good crewman ($100/day). This assumes you can find a decent volunteer crewman. So $350 X 90= $31,500. Just for crew. Can you get cheaper? Sure, there are numerous threads about low ball masters who wreck boats.

Add to that provisioning and canal fees.

Add to that the fact that after running the Atlantic coast of the US and a transpac, the sails will have significant wear. If the boat is used 2 times a week for an average of cruising is 8 hours, the sails get 64 hours of use a month. they will be up for about 80 days or 1,920 hours. That equates to 2 1/2 years of use IF they get it done in 80 days.

Additionally, on a long delivery, stuff will wear and fail. Adding to your cost of the delivery. If something essential breaks away from a supply location, you could be paying crew to wait for a part, or specialized technician to fix the boat.

Finally, there is the cost of crew transport. You will need to either pay Ozzies to fly up, or fly North American crew back home.

Bottom line--- if this was a $500K yacht or specialized vessel, it would make sense. For a 40+ year old- $120K vessel it makes no financial sense to sail her down.

If you are really in love with her, get a price on having her loaded up and moved. Perhaps a hybrid of sailing her to NY, or the Chesapeake for loading would make sense.

I think I agree with you on every point @SNORE. It's been fun armchair sailing and I certainly appreciated the well thought-out comments that you and others have made but I think, the reality is, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear and, though I love the boat, I can't justify the cost of taking this route.

[Australis_458]

Originally Posted by MGRodems

Hi Matt:

We met in Sault Ste. Marie (George Kemp Downtown Marina) in August of 2021. We sail the Irwin 43 Emerald Isle. I remember your big freezer in the cockpit.

We have left the Great Lakes, but have gone to Maine, the Chesapeake and currently heading to the Bahamas. If I were you I would sail the Bahamas and Carribbean first. You may scratch your winter season itch a lot easier in the Western Hemisphere.

Mike & Claudia

Hi Mike!

I remember you well and your beautiful Irwin 43. Sounds like you are having quite an adventure of your own. BZ! I may just do as you suggest. I have work coming up in North Carolina 2025 and then Puerto Rico 2026. I should just take her south, live on her as much as I can, and see how things land.