The Reef Ain't Dead

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

My infant school grand children can make up better stories than that.

Earth has seen some highly unusual weather patterns over the past three years, and three new studies published this year point to Arctic sea loss as a potential important driver of some of these strange weather patterns. The record loss of sea ice the Arctic in recent years may be increasing winter cold surges and snowfall in Europe and North America, says a study by a research team led by Georgia Institute of Technology scientists Jiping Liu and Judith Curry. The paper, titled "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall", was published on Feb. 27, 2012 in the online early edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "Our study demonstrates that the decrease in Arctic sea ice area is linked to changes in the winter Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation, said Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at Georgia Tech, in a press release. "The circulation changes result in more frequent episodes of atmospheric blocking patterns, which lead to increased cold surges and snow over large parts of the northern continents."

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/Je...-patterns.html

A sailor would know that the temperature and pressure gradients drive wind systems. The Arctic is warming faster that the tropics. That has lowered the gradients resulting in a slower jet stream which meanders. I am about to get by the result of that; cold weather for the next few days.

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by boatman61

What tickles me about political response to the so called AGW 'Crisis' is the solution they apply is not shutting down industries ability to produce and sell harmful products such as certain chemical fertilizers or single use plastic packaging for example..
Instead it's Green Taxes on the population and the Joke known as Carbon Credits meaning a country can buy an increased pollution allowance from a low carbon country bypassing any limits.
As ridiculous as a drunk driver telling a traffic cop it's not a problem as two of his passengers are sober..

But think of the pleasure it brings simple people to declaim about their virtue and public-spiritedness, their love for Gaia, their concern for _________ and _______ (insert flavours of month) etc., all while not really requiring them to do anything about their own lifestyles, because it's all the fault of ________ and ________ etc.

Ah, "the petroleum economy" yada, yada... Do any of these poseurs actually stop using petroleum, plastics etc - fibreglass yachts perhaps?

When the "petroleum economy" that keeps the USA (and therefore the rest of us) afloat ends, or even when the "petro-dollar" round-game ends, these poseurs won't have as much time for virtue-signalling on the Internet as they'll be too busy walking to the office or digging in their kitchen gardens.

If that's what they want, bring it on. Not one in a thousand of them has the skills to survive in such a scenario, and most won't.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

But think of the pleasure it brings simple people to declaim about their virtue and public-spiritedness, their love for Gaia, their concern for _________ and _______ (insert flavours of month) etc., all while not really requiring them to do anything about their own lifestyles, because it's all the fault of ________ and ________ etc.

Ah, "the petroleum economy" yada, yada... Do any of these poseurs actually stop using petroleum, plastics etc - fibreglass yachts perhaps?

When the "petroleum economy" that keeps the USA (and therefore the rest of us) afloat ends, or even when the "petro-dollar" round-game ends, these poseurs won't have as much time for virtue-signalling on the Internet as they'll be too busy walking to the office or digging in their kitchen gardens.

If that's what they want, bring it on. Not one in a thousand of them has the skills to survive in such a scenario, and most won't.

Appreciate your honesty about this - it really clarifies where you are coming from. I come from a completely different point of view.

To take a historical example, it was a really hard problem to figure out that they needed to separate sewage from drinking water sources*. I am sure there were those who didn't believe in invisible creatures and were sure the problem could never be solved, would be hideously expensive if it was possible, and ridiculed those who recognized and solved the problem. There have always been such people, they contribute nothing to the future, but the future will be better in spite of them. I take a positive view of the AGW problem - I accept the overwhelming evidence and am doing what I can to lower my carbon footprint, a lot I would say. And I am advocating for larger scale changes than I can implement my self.

(Well-documented in "The Ghost Map: The Story of London's Most Terrifying Epidemic--and How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World" by Steven Johnson)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

But think of the pleasure it brings simple people to declaim about their virtue and public-spiritedness, their love for Gaia, their concern for _________ and _______ (insert flavours of month) etc., all while not really requiring them to do anything about their own lifestyles, because it's all the fault of ________ and ________ etc.

Ah, "the petroleum economy" yada, yada... Do any of these poseurs actually stop using petroleum, plastics etc - fibreglass yachts perhaps?

When the "petroleum economy" that keeps the USA (and therefore the rest of us) afloat ends, or even when the "petro-dollar" round-game ends, these poseurs won't have as much time for virtue-signalling on the Internet as they'll be too busy walking to the office or digging in their kitchen gardens.

If that's what they want, bring it on. Not one in a thousand of them has the skills to survive in such a scenario, and most won't.

Well bar 1 out of 15 all my boats have been 20yrs old plus.. so third, fourth and even ninth hand.. its called recycling.. Digging in a kitchen garden I can and have done.. walking to the office (apart from offices having zero appeal) would be crazy when I have a mountain bike..

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/Je...-patterns.html

A sailor would know that the temperature and pressure gradients drive wind systems. The Arctic is warming faster that the tropics. That has lowered the gradients resulting in a slower jet stream which meanders. I am about to get by the result of that; cold weather for the next few days.

A sailor would know that also accounts for unusual Arctic temperature which are considered the gold standard for alarmism.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Would you please share with us your scientific insight into what is "infantile" with this research?

Current Biology VOLUME 30, ISSUE 13, P2433-2445.E3, JULY 06, 2020. Optical Feedback Loop Involving Dinoflagellate Symbiont and Scleractinian Host Drives Colorful Coral BleachingDOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2020.04.055

You first....

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

A sailor would know that also accounts for unusual Arctic temperature which are considered the gold standard for alarmism.

The data say the north polar region is warming 2.66 times faster that the tropics. RSS / MSU and AMSU Data / Time Series Trend Browser

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Appreciate your honesty about this - it really clarifies where you are coming from. I come from a completely different point of view.

To take a historical example, it was a really hard problem to figure out that they needed to separate sewage from drinking water sources*. I am sure there were those who didn't believe in invisible creatures and were sure the problem could never be solved, would be hideously expensive if it was possible, and ridiculed those who recognized and solved the problem. There have always been such people, they contribute nothing to the future, but the future will be better in spite of them. I take a positive view of the AGW problem - I accept the overwhelming evidence and am doing what I can to lower my carbon footprint, a lot I would say. And I am advocating for larger scale changes than I can implement my self.

(Well-documented in "The Ghost Map: The Story of London's Most Terrifying Epidemic--and How It Changed Science, Cities, and the Modern World" by Steven Johnson)

I'm afraid I have very little confidence in your perception of "where I'm coming from", but no matter, I am quite accepting of the reality that many, some would say most people are not actually rational in their thinking processes, and as a result of course are rarely able to perceive that fact.

Your advocacy of nuclear power as opposed to petroleum should I suppose be proof enough that further debate is pointless.

Studies suggest about a million people died from the effects of Chernobyl, and despite the mainstream media politely ignoring the matter, several reactors at Fukushima are in full meltdown, polluting vast quantities of water which will inevitably be dumped into the Pacific as so much as been already, and wash westwards, as huge amounts already have.

The death toll? We'll probably never know, not even the human death toll. The Canadian government removed the radiation sensors on the west coast long ago, no doubt to prevent public alarm. LOL.

The Russians just constructed a huge steel containment roof to go over the concrete containment of Chernobyl, due to the latter's deterioration. The Japanese, no doubt at the behest of your beloved industry and various other state actors have done nothing remotely similar.

When the megathrust quake hits the PNW and San Andreas faults, the sloppy, improvised nuclear waste storage at Hanford is going to bust open and then we'll have some real fun on our hands.

All designed and approved by highly educated "experts", who like your favourite kind, are always paid by somebody.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The data say the north polar region is warming 2.66 times faster that the tropics. RSS / MSU and AMSU Data / Time Series Trend Browser

Of course it does. Yet cold records still get broken, even during the "hottest year ever".


The data says so much, in fact, it would appear to trample itself in the process...



https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55179603

Climate change: Snowy UK winters could become thing of the past

https://www.ft.com/content/997d057e-...0-52972418fec4

Global warming to give colder winters and hotter summers

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

The death toll? We'll probably never know, not even the human death toll.

One of the safest methods of energy production is nuclear. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So who recognizes this place...

Seems no Transat sailors are reading this thread..

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

I'm afraid I have very little confidence in your perception of "where I'm coming from", but no matter, I am quite accepting of the reality that many, some would say most people are not actually rational in their thinking processes, and as a result of course are rarely able to perceive that fact.

Your advocacy of nuclear power as opposed to petroleum should I suppose be proof enough that further debate is pointless.

Studies suggest about a million people died from the effects of Chernobyl, and despite the mainstream media politely ignoring the matter, several reactors at Fukushima are in full meltdown, polluting vast quantities of water which will inevitably be dumped into the Pacific as so much as been already, and wash westwards, as huge amounts already have.

The death toll? We'll probably never know, not even the human death toll. The Canadian government removed the radiation sensors on the west coast long ago, no doubt to prevent public alarm. LOL.

The Russians just constructed a huge steel containment roof to go over the concrete containment of Chernobyl, due to the latter's deterioration. The Japanese, no doubt at the behest of your beloved industry and various other state actors have done nothing remotely similar.

When the megathrust quake hits the PNW and San Andreas faults, the sloppy, improvised nuclear waste storage at Hanford is going to bust open and then we'll have some real fun on our hands.

All designed and approved by highly educated "experts", who like your favourite kind, are always paid by somebody.

One needs to look no further than a comparison of Prince William Sound and the waters off the coast of Louisiana with the environments of Chernobyl and Fukushima to see how wonderful nuclear is when things go belly up.

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by jackdale

One of the safest methods of energy production is nuclear. https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Is there a peer review for that data?


The increases in the death rates began right after Fukushima so let's do some investigative journalism for elementary school children:

Fukushima has been almost entirely ignored by the western media for years because:

1. No one cares anyway
2. It's not interesting compared to the Kardashians
3. Nuclear power is very safe
4. The mass media in North America is owned by a few large corporations who don't like to upset powerful industries and state actors.


(Prizes will not be given)


PLACE RUG HERE

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Seems no Transat sailors are reading this thread..

Klyuchevskaya Sopka?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

Is there a peer review for that data?


The increases in the death rates began right after Fukushima so let's do some investigative journalism for elementary school children:

Fukushima has been almost entirely ignored by the western media for years because:

1. No one cares anyway
2. It's not interesting compared to the Kardashians
3. Nuclear power is very safe
4. The mass media in North America is owned by a few large corporations who don't like to upset powerful industries and state actors.

PLACE RUG HERE

It is not a peer-reviewed journal. There are links to explanations of the data, some which a peer-reviewed.

As to Fukushima and Chernobyl. https://ourworldindata.org/what-was-...-and-fukushima