The Reef Ain't Dead

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

.
What's that millennium old saying..
"Young Men go to fight wars and change the world but, when the dust has settled and the smoke has cleared the old men rebuild it as it was.."

Sorta like another old saying about how if you're not a liberal when you're young you must not have a heart. But if you don't become more conservative as you get older you don't have a brain . . . errr . . . haven't grown up?

[RaymondR]

Ironic isn't it that it was the pro CC/AGW crowd at scientist Peter Ridd's place of employment who had him fired for attempting to defend the quality of climate science in respect of the reef.

Unfortunately the High Court of Australia cannot award him damages even if it finds that he was unlawfully dismissed from his employment.

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by boatman61

We'll China had a go for a while..
But it's kinda difficult with this growing move for human rights and the Anti abortion, anti contraceptives crowd intent on more souls for the Big Fella..
May have a chance if the world ever goes Atheist..

Ain't that the truth.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Yep, them fishermen (and other water rats) were scientists in their own right. Old King Canute wasn't though - unless you consider his 'hypothesis' to be proved incorrect.

Looks like you've fallen for the distorted legend about Cnut the Great
"
The story of King Canute and the tide is an apocryphal anecdote illustrating the piety or humility of King Canute the Great, recorded in the 12th century by Henry of Huntingdon.
In the story, Canute demonstrates to his flattering courtiers that he has no control over the elements (the incoming tide), explaining that secular power is vain compared to the supreme power of God. The episode is frequently alluded to in contexts where the futility of "trying to stop the tide" of an inexorable event is pointed out, but usually misrepresenting Canute as believing he had supernatural powers, when Huntingdon's story in fact relates the opposite."

[StuM]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Another silly diversion into denialism. alarmist
If you can't win an argument - change the subject, divert, digress!!!

There, FIFY

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by Exile

Boy, this rather nails it, esp. the bolded parts for me. And not just over the CC issue. More often than not it's the people who repeatedly express the most certainty who actually know the least. Too busy talking maybe. Or as someone once put it, "often wrong, never in doubt." Or was it "always wrong, never in doubt?" Either way, it usually trips my bulls**t meter. Sometimes I don't know if I have it set too low or need to turn it up.

It nicely sums up the "The Dan Factor" doesn't it? And reminds me very much of the sneering, jeering, arrogant tone of the Climategate emails.

Now, of course heaven forbid that anyone should think such attitudes can be found more widely among the "scientific" community!

For those who need a short course in the perpetual follies of human nature as applied to science and discovery, here it is: http://amasci.com/weird/wclose.html

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by StuM

Looks like you've fallen for the distorted legend about Cnut the Great
"
The story of King Canute and the tide is an apocryphal anecdote illustrating the piety or humility of King Canute the Great, recorded in the 12th century by Henry of Huntingdon.
In the story, Canute demonstrates to his flattering courtiers that he has no control over the elements (the incoming tide), explaining that secular power is vain compared to the supreme power of God. The episode is frequently alluded to in contexts where the futility of "trying to stop the tide" of an inexorable event is pointed out, but usually misrepresenting Canute as believing he had supernatural powers, when Huntingdon's story in fact relates the opposite."

Not quite fallen, rather chosen intentionally as it seems to aptly apply to this thread. Make of it as you will .

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The first name on the list is the one of the originators of the concept of AGW.

Ah yes, a true prophet. The man who correctly predicted:
"By the influence of the increasing percentage of carbonic acid in the atmosphere, we may hope to enjoy ages with more equable and better climates, especially as regards the colder regions of the earth, ages when the earth will bring forth much more abundant crops than at present, for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind.""

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Tillikum

Your response is emotionalism plain and simple, always an essential, indeed the core ingredient of propaganda.

Seems someone needs to look in the mirror, (see your third and fourth statement)

When "scientists" run around shouting about "the debate is over!" we know they're denying the essential tenet of science: constant and honest inquiry for the sake of knowledge and understanding, rather than grant money, peer approval, and plum jobs.

The fact that a scientist would even publish a claim (earlier cited by you IIRC) that there was 100% consensus in peer-reviewed literature, which was swiftly proven to be wrong, shows the decline in intellectual honesty, not to mention common sense! Pravda and the People's Daily have 100% consensus - we haven't quite got there yet.

Of course the fact that obtaining a degree in a science does not automatically confer honesty, objectivity or fair-mindedness only comes as a surprise to you-know-who.

Tautologies aside, see your first statement. (I hereby claim innocence in 'goose chase, wild'.)

In chronological order, earliest to most recent.

2 + 2 = 4

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (but, of course, that only's true if one understands, at least, the concept of '2'.)


The earth is a sphere (actually an oblate spheroid, but we didn't know that until comparatively recently.)

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (though there is hot 'debate' on the subject with the FES.)


Gravity is real.

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (though we understand virtually nothing about it.)


Minute biological forms can cause disease (germ-theory of disease.)


THE DEBATE IS OVER! (unless one's a member of a certain sub-group of
a privileged, parasitic Western civilizationites.)


Species are formed by minute biological changes over time (evolution).

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (though how these changes are brought about is only beginning to be understood.)


The vacuum speed of light is fixed and cannot be exceeded.

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (though we can't really say why that should be so.)


Climate change is real and human's role in the current hyper-acceleration of it is supported by an increasingly overwhelming body of fact and analysis.

THE DEBATE IS OVER! (though a decreasing minority of misinformed individuals, vested-interest entities and myopic, well-funded politicians continue to propagandize the idea that there is 'debate' on the subject.)


And on and on and on...


I'm about to recommend an addition to the DSM-6. 'Infantile Strawmannery'.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

Sorta like another old saying about how if you're not a liberal when you're young you must not have a heart. But if you don't become more conservative as you get older you don't have a brain . . . errr . . . haven't grown up?

Guess I was born old in that case..
I have always held conservative views.. Victorian upbringing..
Every woman I have known will tell you my heart is a block of ice..

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by StuM

Ah yes, a true prophet. The man who correctly predicted:
"By the influence of the increasing percentage of carbonic acid in the atmosphere, we may hope to enjoy ages with more equable and better climates, especially as regards the colder regions of the earth, ages when the earth will bring forth much more abundant crops than at present, for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind.""

He did not get everything right. Melting permafrost is not pretty.

[lestersails]

Hi Tillikum,

This forum topic was not about the nature or structure of science - it was about whether AGW is significantly contributing to the decline of the Great Barrier Reef.

These sorts of diversions are too clever by half. Divert into side arguments and victimhood for deniers, pretending they are the same as scientists who challenge conventional scientific wisdom with robust hypotheses and data. Denial isn't science - it is just cranks.

Einstein overturned Newton's conventional scientific model of space and time. Did he do that by impugning Newton? By half-baked rants on the nature of the scientific process? No, he did it by coming up with a better model, supported by robust mathematics and he generated predictions that were then tested with empirical methods.

Do the deniers ever do anything of the sort? Nope - they are just armchair quarterbacks moaning, complaining and doing everything but science.
To put climate change deniers in the same bin as real scientists is utter malarkey.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Guess I was born old in that case..
I have always held conservative views.. Victorian upbringing..
Every woman I have known will tell you my heart is a block of ice..

I bet that's not the only thing those women would tell. (sorry, but you really set yourself up for that one)

Born emphatically liberal in my case. Maybe just a scenario where the more I came to learn about human nature the more I liked dogs. Never been a follower of the latest trends & fashions, and always questioned the motivations of people who get off on telling others how they should think and what they should believe. Trips the alarms on my trusty bulls**t meter.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Exile

I bet that's not the only thing those women would tell. (sorry, but you really set yourself up for that one)

Born emphatically liberal in my case. Maybe just a scenario where the more I came to learn about human nature the more I liked dogs. Never been a follower of the latest trends & fashions, and always questioned the motivations of people who get off on telling others how they should think and what they should believe. Trips the alarms on my trusty bulls**t meter.

My Dogs were my only real friends for most of my youth.. after arriving in the UK not much changed, just no dogs.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by lestersails

To put climate change deniers in the same bin as real scientists is utter malarkey.

Not for another couple of days will the climate "crisis" begin anew Lester, but I'm sure the wait has been excruciating. And as the pandemic begins to hopefully fade, the now famous adage about never letting a crisis go to waste will be in full view. Politicians have to get re-elected after all, and the media always needs something to boost their ratings. As for the detractors, we can see that the throngs of followers are already dutifully learning the new lingo to deal with "those" people. I mean c'mon man, just tell 'em that's malarkey!