Pacific transit // money transfers, making payments, etc

[boatsisboats]

Hello all.

We head out the canal in February and are trying to understand about banking- from the boat. Bare with me...
I have understood from other cruisers that (with Starlink or beachbar wifi) many financial institutions won't process simple bank transfers from afar. Yes, I could use a VPN, but they don't always work and I have not tried to do this from this far out of the country before.

For those that have crossed the Pacific sorta recently - Did you have issues with your banking? Can you make a Venmo payment to someone in the states while cruising far abroad? Can you make a credit card payment? Can you make a digital payment or balance transfer?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Trevor

[PaulSommers]

I recommend a long call with your bank(s), and some experiments with actual small transactions before you set out. This is a constant frustration of cruisers and other expats living outside the US. You can find other threads on this Forum relating to this topic. We use a Charles Schwab account for obtaining cash from ATMs while we are in Mexico half of the year, as Schwab Bank refunds any ATM fees at the end of each month. Payments to third parties can be a real hassle. Venmo - definitely not if you are outside the US, except possible if a VPN fools your bank's software re your actual location. I received money through Venmo at my US account from someone in Mexico who also had a US bank account; he was probably using a VPN to disguise his actual location. Zelle works - I have paid Mexican marina fees while in Mexico from a US bank using Zelle (April and May of this year), and I was not using a VPN. However, the marina in question has a US bank account, so that may be why it works. To make larger payments such as buying a house in Mexico, I had to use wire transfers (this was before Zelle) and we resorted to listing the phone of a daughter in the US as the recipient of a two-factor authentication text, then getting her on the line in a Zoom call at the same time as the on-line interaction with the bank; the text went to her, she told us the code and we entered it into the bank's online system. Others on this Forum have discussed getting permanent VOIP phone numbers so that they have a US phone number. That may or may not work with two factor authentication schemes requiring receipt of a text message. If you are staying in country X for a while, get a local phone number, and then try to get that phone accepted by your bank. They may or may not accept a non-US phone for their two factor authentication processes. Another option that may work is a USB security key - a small device that plugs into a USB port on your computer. Upon request for a two factor authentication code, you press a button on the security key. In my experience this works with some processes at my main US bank and not for others. That variation and the issues with non-US phones for text messages are why you need a long conversation with your bank and then experiment with actual transactions before you leave for really remote places. A trusted relative, friend, or lawyer back home may also be able to do certain transactions on your behalf. Again, questions for your bank. And expect whatever you set up to change while you are on your cruise - security for financial transaction is a rapidly evolving field, with one certainty - new threats will emerge and the financial institutions are forced to react.

[PippaB]

When we crossed the Pacific a few years ago we kept a Google Fi phone for this purpose (yes, restrictions on how long you are away from home, we had no issues/problems - but were not heavy users). Their flexible plan allows you to receive SMS messages to a US phone number, and their built-in VPN allows you to connect to banking systems. Worked for us, across three banks and four years.

There are a few island groups not included, but still works over WiFi when cell is not included. IIRC Cook Islands and Niue were two where cell did not connect/not included.

If you have a decent banking institution you can even call from a "US" phone and talk to them in person.

In reality, though, pretty much the only time we used it was making the bank transfer for Panama Canal fees I guess it depends on how much banking you need to do, for us cards worked most places, and when headed remote we would withdraw cash from an ATM when in "town". Make sure you understand your bank's foreign transaction fees - we primarly bank with a very nice credit union that charges nothing and provides wholesale conversion rates without markup or fee.

[wholybee]

I used an ATM card from my credit union, and it has worked fine everywhere worldwide. All the Pacific Islands, NZ, Indonesia, Australia, South Africa, you get the idea. My ATM card was a non-issue, it just worked.

However, I had friends that had problems in a lot of places. What will determine if it works or not, look at the back of the card, and there will be logos for what financial systems it works with. That is, if the card and the bank share a system, it will work. In many remote places, ATMs and Banks will have signs or stickers showing what systems they work with.

So, check your card, check your bank, and see what systems the card works with. My ATM uses the "PLUS" system, and that worked really well. YMMV.

I used wifi calling with Cricket (AT&T no contract phone) and that worked worldwide for having a US phone number as long as I had wifi. SIM cards are cheap, as are burner phones, for wifi access.

Zelle is nothing more than a normal wire transfer, but with an app to make it easier. It is bank to bank without a 3rd party money transfer company. I highly doubt Zelle would work with banks outside the US. My Credit union doesn't even work with it.

Venmo should work anywhere, but if you are a US citizen and receive more than $600 per year on Venmo, they report it as income for your taxes.

Lastly, if you really want to be prepared, wise.com is a worldwide bank setup for international travel and money exchanges. You open an account, put money in it, and you get a physical credit card. You can then change currency within your account so that when you use the credit card it will always be the local currency to avoid exchange fees. It also has functions for sending and receiving money similar to Venmo, but allowing you to select which currency to use. It is a bit complicated to learn to use, but several swear by it for saving exchange fees and working everywhere. I signed up and got a card from them, but never felt a need as my regular ATM card worked everywhere.

I highly recommend a good credit union. Banks are after profit, credit unions for the most part are not. Instead, they are about service, with less fees, cheaper exchange rates, and refunds from ATM fees.

[Grattaway]

Open a Wise account - and get a wise card

They deal with all currencies and work in most ATM and retail machines - I have never had a problem with my account and use wise to pay bills all over the world from my laptop including when overseas
They are effectively a debit card - have an association with visa and I have found them the best way to transfer between currencies or pay bills

and getting easier to use all the time as they improve systems.
My back up is a visa credit card and bank access via my laptop - could be via mobile phone but frankly I dont like the security protocols on a mobile

One nice feature of Wise is that it sends transaction details to a mobile phone number - mine is whatsapp linked - and I can see at a glance what my home currency cost is - and if card has ben used and I didnt authorise I can stop it or lock it. can also change daily and monthly limits on-line as well as passcodes and lock/unlock so security is great

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Grattaway

Open a Wise account - and get a wise card

They deal with all currencies and work in most ATM and retail machines - I have never had a problem with my account and use wise to pay bills all over the world from my laptop including when overseas
They are effectively a debit card - have an association with visa and I have found them the best way to transfer between currencies or pay bills

and getting easier to use all the time as they improve systems.
My back up is a visa credit card and bank access via my laptop - could be via mobile phone but frankly I dont like the security protocols on a mobile

One nice feature of Wise is that it sends transaction details to a mobile phone number - mine is whatsapp linked - and I can see at a glance what my home currency cost is - and if card has ben used and I didnt authorise I can stop it or lock it. can also change daily and monthly limits on-line as well as passcodes and lock/unlock so security is great

I too was going to suggest Wise. Have used it for 5+ years and made dozens of payments into Mexico and other countries in Central America.

The Wise card is a pre-paid debit card - the benefit of which is you cannot get scammed for more than you've placed in the account which allows me to reduce risk/exposure to various scams. You must be in the US to receive the card - you cannot receive it outside the US. I was recently stranded when they changed some of their back-end providers and needed to replace my card which I could not do in Mexico. I would not recommend it as a primary card.

A related tip: In Mexico at least, the bank ATM banks offer their own exchange rate on the first screen. Decline it to get your bank's exchange rate (I too use Schwab - near 'spot' rates without commission). The other day here in Mexico I made a sizeable withdrawal - the difference between the ATM bank's offer and what I ultimately paid via Schway was 7%!!! More than enough for a nice dinner.

Poor picture attached - key thing to know is to hit "DECLINE" on the first bank screen with their exchange rate. You are not exiting, just being shunted to your banks exchange.

[SailingHarmonie]

I use one of the cheaper Google Fi plans for my phone, so I ahve always had a US phone number. That’s all that matters. Nobody knows where you are actually calling from. It uses VOIP whenever available, so with our starlink is always available for 2 factor authentication.

Our VPN has been totally reliable and transparent, but not a need anyway since my bank lets me log in from anywhere. As do all my credit card services.

It really has not been a big deal. Banking has been really simple, with no added fees. I don’t understand the issues people seem to have. A modicum of planning has made it a non-issue for us.

The only reason we have used Wise (which is expensive, and generally sucks) and other such services is to deal with those people who insist it is the only way they can get money. I much prefer direct wire transfer of funds if other people’s banks can take it. It is free it happens in minutes, it is simple.

I have never used Venmo, so I can’t give any advice there.

I have always been able to pay everybody who needs paying. Don’t over think this.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

The only reason we have used Wise (which is expensive, and generally sucks) and other such services is to deal with those people who insist it is the only way they can get money. I much prefer direct wire transfer of funds if other people’s banks can take it. It is free it happens in minutes, it is simple.

Can you explain further your challenges with Wise? And how you've been able to wire transfer money into a foreign account via a bank at a favorable exchange rate without fees? Majority of my transactions have been Mexican pesos (probably over 100) but also have a handful in GBP, EUR, CRC, and CAN (they advertise ability to trnsact in 160 currencies). Bank transfers carry a $35 fee and there is a noticeable haircut in exchange rates (7% via ScotisBank last time I did a direct bank-bsnk transfer that included foreign exchange). Plus the exchange rate was awful. With Wise last week, I paid $5250-peso bill ($286 USD) to a Mexico bank account and received an exchange rate they was essentially the spot rate for MXN/USD for the day, minus a $2.38 fee to Wise (0.8%). And the transaction was confirmed in 5-minutes. Had I done it via a US bank, I would have had to pay over $325 USD to pay the bill in pesos.

Curious how your experience with Wise differs so greatly from mine?

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

You must be in the US to receive the card - you cannot receive it outside the US.

To be clear, you must receive it at your primary address. Wise is actually a bank in the UK, and you could just as easily receive cards there if that was your primary address.

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Can you explain further your challenges with Wise? And how you've been able to wire transfer money into a foreign account via a bank at a favorable exchange rate without fees? Majority of my transactions have been Mexican pesos (probably over 100) but also have a handful in GBP, EUR, CRC, and CAN (they advertise ability to trnsact in 160 currencies). Bank transfers carry a $35 fee and there is a noticeable haircut in exchange rates (7% via ScotisBank last time I did a direct bank-bsnk transfer that included foreign exchange). Plus the exchange rate was awful. With Wise last week, I paid $5250-peso bill ($286 USD) to a Mexico bank account and received an exchange rate they was essentially the spot rate for MXN/USD for the day, minus a $2.38 fee to Wise (0.8%). And the transaction was confirmed in 5-minutes. Had I done it via a US bank, I would have had to pay over $325 USD to pay the bill in pesos.

Curious how your experience with Wise differs so greatly from mine?

I have a Wise card just in case I ever needed it. Only used it once. To answer your question on bank fees though, I use a credit union. I don't understand why anyone uses a "real" bank anymore, honestly. No foreign transaction fees if I use the card in another country, and they will reimburse me ATM fees that are charged by other banks ATM. Mostly I paid everything in cash with a biweekly ATM trip. So, no more expensive than Wise.

IIRC, Wise charged me to deposit money into the account, so while they may not charge much for an exchange fee, the real price you paid was higher. The one time I used it was a need for a wire transfer to customs in Indonesia. I was able to transfer money from my credit union to Wise, and then send the money very quickly. I don't recall the cost, it paled to the customs expense, but it was not free.

Plus, my checking account is interest bearing. It doesn't pay much, but at least it is the right direction vs. paying bank fees for every damn little thing. And, I get better rates on Mortgages, Car loans, or whatever than any bank can offer. And I get "points" for using my card which I can exchange for cash. It works out to about $1000 once per year when I cash them in. So that brings the total cost down more.

So, that is why I don't use Wise. But for someone that doesn't use a credit union, I think Wise is a sound choice.

I will reiterate what I said in my first post, look at the logos on the back of your card, because that is the sole thing that will determine if it will work at any given ATM anywhere in the world. My card has only one, the "PLUS" system. It worked everywhere. I had friends with cards that had 3 or 4 logos, the "STAR" system, "CO-OP", "CIRRUS", etc., but NOT the "PLUS" system. We would get to an ATM in some remote place that had ten logos on it, and none of them matched my friends card, but they did have the PLUS system and my card worked. YMMV, any ATM may or may not work with any given ATM network system.

And, I second the note you say about the exchange offer on ATMs. That happens at random places all over the world, and reads like if you don't accept it you can't use the ATM. Always decline it.

[wholybee]

Also, in the US, any money you receive through a 3rd party money sending company (Paypal, Venmo, etc.) is subject to income tax, and that company will report it to the IRS if you receive more than $600. Not an issue for sending money, but if you are expecting payments from splitting costs with crew you need to be aware of that. If money is sent bank to bank without the 3rd party getting involved, then it is not subject to tax, and not reported. Zelle is just a wire transfer between banks, so not taxed.

[fxykty]

We are not from the US, so maybe our experience will not help you. While we do have bank accounts and credit cards from our ‘home’ banks, we rarely use them. Certainly debit cards never, and the credit cards it depends. One has no foreign transaction fees so it is preferred, but 2FA is a pain if we don’t happen to have cell service (nothing like Google Fi or other services that US residents can use - we’re reliant on local cell service for SMS). Note that we can receive calls and SMS on our home country’s phone number even if we don’t have roaming turned on, so we keep one cheap prepaid SIM active for that purpose. Otherwise it’s a new number with every country we pass through.

We opened a Wise account and haven’t looked back. The exchange rates are better than anyone else’s and that savings more than makes up for the service fee when paying direct to a bank account from Wise. It allows you to select to have virtual wallets in up to 50 currencies at any on time, so you can receive and send money anywhere. The card is essentially a Visa Debit card and seems to be very widely supported at ATMs and payment terminals.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by wholybee

I have a Wise card just in case I ever needed it. Only used it once. To answer your question on bank fees though, I use a credit union. I don't understand why anyone uses a "real" bank anymore, honestly. No foreign transaction fees if I use the card in another country, and they will reimburse me ATM fees that are charged by other banks ATM. Mostly I paid everything in cash with a biweekly ATM trip. So, no more expensive than Wise.

IIRC, Wise charged me to deposit money into the account, so while they may not charge much for an exchange fee, the real price you paid was higher. The one time I used it was a need for a wire transfer to customs in Indonesia. I was able to transfer money from my credit union to Wise, and then send the money very quickly. I don't recall the cost, it paled to the customs expense, but it was not free.

Plus, my checking account is interest bearing. It doesn't pay much, but at least it is the right direction vs. paying bank fees for every damn little thing. And, I get better rates on Mortgages, Car loans, or whatever than any bank can offer. And I get "points" for using my card which I can exchange for cash. It works out to about $1000 once per year when I cash them in. So that brings the total cost down more.

So, that is why I don't use Wise. But for someone that doesn't use a credit union, I think Wise is a sound choice.

I will reiterate what I said in my first post, look at the logos on the back of your card, because that is the sole thing that will determine if it will work at any given ATM anywhere in the world. My card has only one, the "PLUS" system. It worked everywhere. I had friends with cards that had 3 or 4 logos, the "STAR" system, "CO-OP", "CIRRUS", etc., but NOT the "PLUS" system. We would get to an ATM in some remote place that had ten logos on it, and none of them matched my friends card, but they did have the PLUS system and my card worked. YMMV, any ATM may or may not work with any given ATM network system.

And, I second the note you say about the exchange offer on ATMs. That happens at random places all over the world, and reads like if you don't accept it you can't use the ATM. Always decline it.

Broadly speaking, Wise offers two financial tools:

1. Wire Transfers - international wire transfers. Traditional banks often have ridiculous fees and Shylock exchange rates for local currency wire transfers. Wise fees are typically between 0.5%-0.75%. You do NOT need a Wise Card to make a wire transfer.
2. Visa-branded Debit Card (better described as a pre-paid debit card - it is not directly linked to your bank/credit union account: you must fund your Wise account for purchases). The Wise Debit card does charge for inbound money to fund your purchases (around 0.5%) and also charges upon usage of the card why you purchase something.Why use a local-currency credit/debit card? To avoid the merchant from doing the conversion for you at unfavorable rates. Fraud/skimming are relatively common in Mexico so I like having a low-balace credit card that is not directly linked to my bank account the way a traditional debit card is. On the minus side, I doubt Wise has anywhere near the fraud detection and complain process that a US bank has. Why use a Wise Card instead of your US bank card? Wise allows you to pay directly in local currency. Many merchants will make the ForEx conversion for you at an obscene exchange rate and submit the charge in USD. Some banks still have foreign transaction fees which are avoided with a Wise Card purchase. Why use a Wise Card instead of cash from an ATM? Especially in Central America, cash rules so I prefer ATMs, but sometimes it's just handy to have a credit card. Like yourself Wholybee, I use a bank that refunds ATM fees and has no foreign transaction fees (Schwab in my case).

@SailingHarmonie is the first review I've seen that is critical of Wise for fees (I have seen some issues such as mine where my card was suddenly shutdown for back-end changes). We own property in Mexico and I make quite a few payments - if there is a cheaper way than Wise, I'd like to understand better.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Broadly speaking, Wise offers two financial tools ...
... SailingHarmonie is the first review I've seen that is critical of Wise for fees (I have seen some issues such as mine where my card was suddenly shutdown for back-end changes). We own property in Mexico and I make quite a few payments - if there is a cheaper way than Wise, I'd like to understand better.

Wise Card [formerly TransferWise] ➥ https://wise.com/ca/card/

How much does it cost to withdraw cash with my Wise card?
➥ https://wise.com/help/articles/29357...9ONNzQMeqJpcVi

“There are two types of fees we charge for ATM withdrawals which are based on how many times you withdraw and how much you withdraw.
You get 2 free withdrawals per calendar month. After your second withdrawal, we’ll charge a small fixed fee per withdrawal.
Each calendar month you have a free withdrawal allowance — you can withdraw money up to that amount without any variable fees.
We charge the variable fee for every withdrawal on your Wise card over your monthly allowance, regardless of how many times you made a withdrawal that month.
If you withdraw cash in a currency you're not currently holding, we'll charge a conversion fee to convert it for you...”

See also “Fees for the Wise card” ➥ https://wise.com/gb/pricing/card-fee...&targetCcy=EUR

“Wise card Canada review 2024" ➥ https://www.moneysense.ca/spend/shop...a-review-2024/

“... The Wealthsimple and EQ Bank cards both have no annual fee, but what sets them apart from the Wise card is that they both use the exchange rate set by Visa, which is a bit lower than what Wise charges. Plus, Wealthsimple and EQ Bank don’t charge a fee to load funds into your account, so you’re coming out ahead right from the start. They also have no-fee ATM withdrawals...”

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Wise Card [formerly TransferWise] ➥ https://wise.com/ca/card/

How much does it cost to withdraw cash with my Wise card?
➥ https://wise.com/help/articles/29357...9ONNzQMeqJpcVi
See also “Fees for the Wise card” ➥ https://wise.com/gb/pricing/card-fee...&targetCcy=EUR

“Wise card Canada review 2024" ➥ https://www.moneysense.ca/spend/shop...a-review-2024/

Thanks Gordmay - the bottom line is using a Wise Card for ATM withdrawals is possible but expensive except for very small amounts (under $350 CAD per month???). Separate and distinct from international wire bank transfers in local currency which is a very useful and low priced service.

In the US at least, there are cards that offer the trifecta of low costs for ATM withdrawals anywhere in the world: no foreign transaction fees; competitive ForEx rate; and reimbursed ATM fees. I use Schwab but there are others - there is no reason for me to use Wise Visa/Debit Card for ATM withdrawals (it is handy for local consumer purchases though).

Again, big difference between their Wise Visa/Debit Card and the Wise Wire Transfer service. I guess the confusion on this thread stems from the fact that few people do wire transfers so gravitate towards topic of ATMs. From experience, ability to make large-ish bank-to-bank money transfers in local currency is incredibly helpful (think emergency services or yard bills in a foreign land).