Hong Kong to Manila

[Gone2long]

On late Season Wind and Swell,

Thanks again,

Yes, I guess I'm not at all used to thinking of the NE monsoon as lasting until April since, up on the N. Luzon coast, we rarely get any significant swell much past February. But, apparently, the West coast of Luzon being in the lee of the NE monsoon, makes the swell and wind virtually non existant on the coast by the time April rolls around. Apparently, this is not so if one is far enough off shore.

Thanks for your help,

G2L

[bangkaboat]

Originally Posted by Laidback

Suggest do not de-register from the Macao registry until you are satisfied as to where to state register.

Could I suggest leaving the Taiwan Strait out of your plan - unless one has a good reason and a boat prepared for offshore, this stretch of water can provide unpleasant surprises.

First and foremost the boat should be prepared for offshore cruising - I presume that you are going to contract a surveyor to give the boat a thorough survey Before you purchase.

The boat was not designed for offshore work - but that is because she is too small for long distance passages. However, as the leg is only 500 odd nm if you average 5.3 knots - you can be there in 4 days.

1) A broker recently suggested to me that the easiest, cheapest way is to register in Delaware.

2) I lived in Kaohsiung, Taiwan, and spent much time travelling to the various islands in the straight. I've also owned a Mac26, albeit the "s" model, and can not imagine it carrying me across the strait. Sorry if it comes across as fear-mongering, but I'd highly recommend that you don't attempt it. I can't see any Mac26 doing that trip, except in a shipping container.

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Regarding your question about why I want to go into the Straits, v. heading due SW, I guess the short answer would be "fear". I like the idea of heading NE on a May/June SW swell, with land in sight. I'm not yet confident in my ability to skipper my own boat and I need to learn how to use all these new fangled electronic contraptions that are supposed to make charts magically appear on a lap top, tell you where you are without a noon shot, and enable you to talk to folks hundreds of miles away, who can rescue you, should the need ever arise.

Plus, as you and others have repeatedly noted, the MacGregor 26 is not made for long ocean passages. To get it to Taiwan and to the PI, however, would involve only two, admittedly tricky, but SHORT passages, with plenty of time to spare and significant opportunities to take refuge, refuel, and have repairs made if need be.

Plus, the "short way down" is intimidating to me, simply because I don't want to spend a lot of money on expensive gear (or a deep keel) that I probably won't use much once I arrive in the Phillipines. Granted, some of that gear will definitely be needed in order to safely transit the Straits, but not nearly as much as folks have indicated would be appropriate for a 500 nm, China Sea crossing.

In any case, I would like to hear more about why your deliveries were not so interesting. Apparently, you were delivering boats across the straits from Taiwan to HK. At the wrong time of the year, under a demanding schedule, I could definitely see such trips as being "no fun". However, your experiences with tides, currents, and winds at various times of year would be useful to me.

The link to the Pacific pilots chart supplied by another thread mate has been helpful, but experience is always the best teacher.

So, if you are so inclined, please share you bad experiences on this thread. If you feel that they may be helpful, but do not belong on this thread, please PM me. Add a phone number if you would rather talk than write, and I'll give you a buzz.

G2L

G2L,
Without going into a lot of detail - the reason for highlighting the Taiwan Strait (which by the way does not separate Hong Kong from Taiwan) is because it is notorious for being an extremely difficult and rough piece of water. The southern end of which starts at the shallow Taiwan Bank and which ends at 25°22'N x 120° 30' E. The Strait passage depth between mainland China and Taiwan averages less than 5O meters. There is a North << South current. When the wind gets up - and it often does due to line squalls, then all the above factors come into play and conditions for a light small boat can become hazardous. If one compares the depth on the West side of Taiwan to average less than 50 meters to that on the East side which averages over 3,000 meters then it is easy to understand the forces that produce rough seas.

If the boat and its equipment are surveyed and found not up to the standard required for a direct passage - Macao >> Bolinao, may I suggest again, that it be shipped as deck cargo (it is too long to fit in a 20ft container) Speak to Cris Wilkenson AGS Worldwide Movers

[muskoka]

Further to Laidbacks comments, I can add some secondhand opinions from a couple of friends who've made passage from North America and whom both found the Taiwan to Hong Kong passage to be amongst the roughest they'd encountered. The seabed shelves up and Pacific swells with a very long fetch come up it to produce some very short, choppy seas. On a chart it looks like you're hopskipping across but the sea state is apparently pretty damned rough. So, what appears to be a geographic 'safe route' may actually be pretty challenging. As said, I'm relaying third party experiences and haven't sailed that particular route.

I hope we're providing you with useful and constructive info of both firsthand and secondhand experience. But truth be told, I think the essense of what's been conveyed is that you think seriously about whether this is a good idea.

[Gone2long]

Thanks guys,

Again, the comments above represent the kind of information that I need to know. Apparently the maps make the journey look rather straight forward, but the bottom of the ocean, tides, and the experience of seasoned sailors seems to tell a different story.

Having no experience with the Taiwan Straits I am all ears. I am wondering however, if notoriously treacherous conditions in the Straits actually exist in May and in the summer months.

Of course, there will always be the stray typhoon to worry about, but are conditions so changeable even in spring?

Thanks to all for providing some of the critical details I have requested, and whatever else folks could add would be sincerely appreciated.

G2L

[Gone2long]

PS

Your comments about shipping the boat to the PI are well taken, but with a total tax liability of 50% or so on incoming "luxury goods" I'd have to get a very good buying price from the seller to make that option viable.

Never say never.

G2L

[muskoka]

Maybe you could ship it to Brunei or KK and do a coastal sail up Palawan.

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by muskoka

Maybe you could ship it to Brunei or KK and do a coastal sail up Palawan.

Muskoka ,
KK - Kota Kinabalu --- great idea ! Brunei bit more difficult.

[Gone2long]

Thanks guys,

Actually, I thought about those ideas. I am not sure what the import tax would be, if any, in either place. Also, how would I establish a "residence" there tow which the boat would be shipped?

Remember also, that the boat would have to be US-reflagged in Macao, before being able to clear customs out of there.

All of these issues seem to raise problems that, if not prohibitive, at least present significant potential problems.

Any advice?

Regards again,

G2L

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Thanks guys,

Actually, I thought about those ideas. I am not sure what the import tax would be, if any, in either place. Also, how would I establish a "residence" there tow which the boat would be shipped?

Remember also, that the boat would have to be US-reflagged in Macao, before being able to clear customs out of there.

All of these issues seem to raise problems that, if not prohibitive, at least present significant potential problems.

Any advice?

Regards again,

G2L

"I am not sure what the import tax would be, if any, in either place."
In which place?
--
" Also, how would I establish a "residence" there to which the boat would be shipped?" That is not necessary
--
"the boat would have to be US-reflagged in Macao" NOT so ! IT may require a certificate certifying that it has been removed from the Macao Registry.
--
"All of these issues seem to raise problems that, if not prohibitive, at least present significant potential problems." What problems ?
--

[Gone2long]

Dear Laid back,

Thanks for spending all this time with me, trying to help me sort out all of these issues; however, right now, I am pre-occupied with pressing decisions regarding the nuclear hazard unfolding up in Japan.

It's a long story, but, suffice it to say that, although I am located down in the PI, the organization that I work for is located only about 120 miles south of Fukushima, and if reactor #1 blows its top, I am going to have to take a hard look at all of my future plans, with my boat purchase plans being, in some ways, the least of my current worries.

As soon as the smoke (steam?) clears, I will have a better idea of where I stand, and at that point I will respond to your comments in detail.

I sincerely appreciate all the time you and others have put into helping me on this and other threads, but for now, I am going to have to temporarily "sign off".

I hope that this will be only a short-lived absence, and I look forward to talking to all of you again soon.

My best regards,

G2L

[Nomad81]

Hello fellow sailors,
I wil be sailing my 38 foot Downeaster to PH and am looking for crew to join. I will more than likely do the crossing around the 31st March 1st April. So far we are 3, however I would like 4th to join if possible. Boat is a 1978 just refit. Skipper is yachtmaster qualified.

If you have any interest or know of anyone who may be, then please get in touch with Martin on (+852) 63148675.

thanks and happy sailing!
Martin

[g5665]

Originally Posted by Sail Dumaguete

I've done this crossing half a dozen times, Its 604 nm from HK to Mnl. It's best to avoid the typhoon (storm) season thats from July to early October (though some typhoons come as late as December) The best time to make the crossing would be from Feb. to May. Expect moderate to strong winds off Hong Kong and moderate to light winds as you approach the Philippines. Off Hong Kong, You'll probably have your weather gear">foul weather gear on, then as you near the Philippines, you'll probably be sailing bare chested, enjoying the tropical waters. I can give more specific details to anyone planning to make the crossing, just post your questions. Well, Happy Sailing!

A while after i posted here... run into a boat for sale... and bought it...
It's moored in Macau...
Yamaha 25ft Mkii
Enough room for a couple and a dog (!)
Easy to handle and strong enough to be sea worthy...
Tried the two time already and it handles well and in a predictable way...with no surprises.
Have all the necessary electronics (gps, radio, speed and depth sensors - just no wind speed meter) but will install some more extras in the coming months (wind/solar power generator; aircon; electric bilge)
Also plan to transform the ice box into a fridge (with a kit system).
Plan to install, after the electric power have the wind source, 1 autopilot for longer passages.
Thinking on installing a rolling furler (any suggestions?)

This boat have very good reviews in the scarce information found online. Personally after trying it i think it's quite good... and it was very cheap...

What are your toughs on it?

[bangkaboat]

g5665
As you probably know, the Yamaha 25-2 has an advertised displacement of about 3750lbs/1700kg. Although the actual displacement is probably much higher, it is still a little boat & adding weight above the waterline adds up quickly. Other than keeping that in mind, I think that it is a good boat when compared to the Mac26 that has been discussed here, but only you can judge the condition of the boat you bought. Unless you know for a fact that the s&r rigging is in good shape, I'd suggest that you focus money there, first. Fortunately, in your area, you don't have to go far to test your boat in big waves & wind & to decide for yourself if it will take you further. The Yamaha 25 is a decent club racing boat, so you won't have to worry about catching enough wind. As for a headsail furler, if you have the cash, why not? All of the "big brand" names seem to serve their owners well. I'm sure that you & your significant other will be happy not to have to go forward in some of the sea states I've seen in the area(and that's from a landside perspective).

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Laidback

"I am not sure what the import tax would be, if any, in either place."
In which place?
--
" Also, how would I establish a "residence" there to which the boat would be shipped?" That is not necessary
--
"the boat would have to be US-reflagged in Macao" NOT so ! IT may require a certificate certifying that it has been removed from the Macao Registry.
--
"All of these issues seem to raise problems that, if not prohibitive, at least present significant potential problems." What problems ?
--

Hi again,

I was referring to the two places you mentioned in your response to Muskoka - Brunai and Kota Kinabalu.

Also, you seeem infer that I could ship a boat from Macao to KK without being a Malaysian resident. That seems unlikely, so please explain.

Good to hear about potentially needing only a "certificate" to "remove" the boat from Macao v. having to re-register it before moving it.

So, is it possible to remove the boat by shipping it to KK and then re-registering it there without being a Malay citizen or resident?

Sincerely appreciate your observations and advice, but have been distracted of late by other pressing concerns, so please forgive this late reply,

Best regards,

G2L.