Hong Kong to Manila

[delmarrey]

This is a fairly old thread but others could use the info.
I was in Cavite just 3 weeks ago. The old Navy base is still there but the PI Navy occupies it now.

Just inside the entrance to Canacao Bay on the NW shore there are some ship yards but not very well developed.

If you go past the Navy base and into Bacoor Bay the water starts getting shallow so be aware. And also be aware of all the fishing, the poles sticking up out of the water, which have nets attached.

The shore lines are a sorry sight. They are lined with thousands/tons of plastic bags and garbage. If they wanted to put people to work the government could have work programs doing a clean up. But that's what government corruption does. The tourist areas are fairly clean though.

People here in the US people complain about pollution, they should go to a third world country some time.

Enough!

[Lancerbye]

I spend 6 mos./year in the Phillipines and I know what Delmarrey is talking about. Some areas are cleaner than others. I found it worst the closer you get to Manila. I spend most of my time on the south island of Mindanao.(northern part) You don't want to go in the southern part. Bohol and Boracay are nice. There are a lot of nice places in the 7000 islands there.

[Gone2long]

Good day thread mate,

I am a novice skipper who is planning to purchase a sailboat in Hong Kong in the next month. Since I am currently residing in the Philippines, one option forme it to take the same route "home" at more or less the same time as the HK/SF race; however, I have some questions about the route, weather, and wind conditions which I hope you can help me to clarify.

In particular, I am wondering which general wind direction Hong Kong sailers are expecting to rely upon during this year's race? Normally, over the winter and early spring, the wind would be from the Northeast, and, judging from the admittedly crude maps which I currently have available to me, the bearing from HK to San Fernando would be roughly Southeast, all of which seems to offer a good point of sail, something like a broad reach, I would imagine, for the trip to PI.

However, the race is scheduled for April 20th (pushed back from the 14th I am told, apparently due to this year's colder weather and longer NE monsoon). By late April, monsoon winds should already be shifiting, with the prevailing winds tending to blow from the Southwest, no? It would seem then, that boats sailing from HK to San Fernando on essentially a SE course would be sailing more or less into the wind - a tack which the race organizers would almost certainly want to avoid.

So, bottom line is that I am a bit confused by this. Either I've got my bearings or points of sail wrong or folks are expecting the NE winds to continue into late April. Any light you could shed on this situation would be appreciated.

I look forward to learning more about the route and race by visiting the HKYC site and other on-line venues in the near future, but I would appreciate any advice you could give concerning these rather elemental concerns.

Thank you sincerely for your time,

Gone2long

[delmarrey]

Here are pilot charts for the N.Pacific. Click on the download for N.Pac. April & May. Hope this helps a bit.
Saka na!

http://www.offshoreblue.com/navigation/pilot-charts.php

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Good day thread mate,

I am a novice skipper who is planning to purchase a sailboat in Hong Kong in the next month. Since I am currently residing in the Philippines, one option forme it to take the same route "home" at more or less the same time as the HK/SF race; however, I have some questions about the route, weather, and wind conditions which I hope you can help me to clarify.

In particular, I am wondering which general wind direction Hong Kong sailers are expecting to rely upon during this year's race? Normally, over the winter and early spring, the wind would be from the Northeast, and, judging from the admittedly crude maps which I currently have available to me, the bearing from HK to San Fernando would be roughly Southeast, all of which seems to offer a good point of sail, something like a broad reach, I would imagine, for the trip to PI.

However, the race is scheduled for April 20th (pushed back from the 14th I am told, apparently due to this year's colder weather and longer NE monsoon). By late April, monsoon winds should already be shifiting, with the prevailing winds tending to blow from the Southwest, no? It would seem then, that boats sailing from HK to San Fernando on essentially a SE course would be sailing more or less into the wind - a tack which the race organizers would almost certainly want to avoid.

So, bottom line is that I am a bit confused by this. Either I've got my bearings or points of sail wrong or folks are expecting the NE winds to continue into late April. Any light you could shed on this situation would be appreciated.

I look forward to learning more about the route and race by visiting the HKYC site and other on-line venues in the near future, but I would appreciate any advice you could give concerning these rather elemental concerns.

Thank you sincerely for your time,

Gone2long

Having participated in the SCS Races and having served as a Scrutineer, your concerns are valid. Couple of questions :-
Why do you want to 'piggy back' the participants?
Will the boat that you intend buying, be prepared to the same off-shore code as the race boats.
What experience will your crew have?

AS far as the wind is concerned :- The switch from the North East Monsoon
to the South West does not take occur overnight. There is a transition period between the monsoons - during which the wind will shift back and forth. The governing system is the Mongolian High - a pressure system that determines a) the amount of N.E. wind and the direction the wind will be between HK and Luzon. What you will need to watch for is the Pratas
Reef and Fishing Trawlers.

[Surveyor]

Originally Posted by Lancerbye

I spend most of my time on the south island of Mindanao.(northern part) You don't want to go in the southern part.

This is BS. Davao is in the South of Mindanao and is the safest city in the Phils by a long shot. It is actually somewhat famous for its low crime rate. I have lived there for years and still visit and maintain a home there. There are trouble spots, in the West for instance, but Southern Mindanao IS SAFE! The air is clean, the water is clean and everywhere you look there are fruit trees and unspoiled landscapes. Some of the best dive spots in SE Asia are right there around The Garden City of Samal (Samal Island).

This is the third time I have replied in a thread here to refute safety concerns in Mindanao. I should just keep my mouth shut and let others sail by so I can have all of the gorgeous local cebuanas to myself!

[Lancerbye]

Sorry Surveyor, We usually don't consider Davao as being south. more east from us. I was referring to Zamboanga city as being somewhat undisirable even for the the locals where I live. However there was that problem with the hit squads a few years ago in Davao or was that in General Santos. I find it strange out there that basically short distances across land become very long distances in actual travel. I wanted to drive to Davao once to look at some welding equipment but it was going to take me two days to drive there. I managed to find what I wanted in Cagayan.

[Gone2long]

Wow!

Thanks alot. That is one big worry out of the way.

Sincerely appreciate your help,

G2L

[Gone2long]

Thanks Laidback, for your comments;

Actually, "piggy backing" on the HK race is not my first choice, and, as you infer, it does have to do with the boat I have in mind. As a "scrutineer" for the race, your further advice would be very much appreciated.

I will be purchasing a MacGregor 26 in Macao and sailing / motoring it back to PI based on the conditions I encounter, and taking as much time as I need to get the boat safely "home" to the Phillipines. Since the Mac is not exactly a blue water cruiser, my route of choice was to use the SW monsoon to "harbor hop" on a WNW course, from HK up to the head just south of Shantou China (a place called Gangliao Wan). From there, almost the same heading will take me across the Taiwan straits to Pescador Island (about a 175 mile passage); then I'll tack or motor down the Taiwan coast to Tainan, Kaoschiung, and Kenting, before heading south to the Phillipines with stops in the Batanes Islands.

Probably the best idea would be to use the tail end of the SW monsoon in October or so to sail up the China coast. Then, I would dally in Taiwan for as long as necessary, in order to catch the NE monsoon south.

However, another plan I have is to do the same trip in the pre-typhoon season, starting a WNW course around May 1. In this way, I could enjoy the relative calm seas and balmy weather that is prevalent at that time of year. The problem with that route is that the final leg of the journey (from Kenting Taiwan to Appari, PI) involves island hopping a significant distance, most of which would have to be managed while heading almost straight into the SW monsoon. I am wondering how difficult that might actually be.

Living in Luzon, my experience is that the SW monsoon is not as strong as the NE monsoon. Also, I would be sailing a Mac 26 motor sailor which sports a 50 hp outboard motor, and, if worse came to worse, I could simply motor south from Kenting for most of the way to Aparri.

I am wondering what your take on such a course might be, and I have attached a sketch of the route along with this message to help clarify the detail and "stop overs". A key concern for me is whether sailing or motoring some 200 miles into the SW monsoon in mid-late May could prove overly daunting. Cross currents in the straits could possible compound the problem.

Also, I have heard that anchoring out along the China coast is not a problem, but that putting into port can be extremely expensive. Wondering if anyone knows if the Chinese authorities/Navy will bother us for anchoring out a couple of days before the actual passage across the straits.

As far as the Phillipinos are concerned, there seems to be no problem anchoring out in the Batanes islands on the way down from Kenting, as long as one does not go ashore. In fact, I have heard that there is really no problem going ashore as well, if "emergency" supplies are needed. The first port for clearing customs is my final destination "Aparri", so my main concern would be adequate overnight anchorages in the Batanes.

A final concern is maintaining radio contact with Chinese officials in case of an emergency, and maintaining internet contact along the China coast in order to check weather sites and the like.

Whatever details you could provide on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. Lots of questions to answer before I decide on the feasibility of this route, and, of course, some of these may go beyond the scope of this thread, but perhaps you can at least help to "point me in the right direction".

Check my route below, and feel free to comment as appropriate.

Thanks to all for the insights provided on this thread,

G2L

[Laidback]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

Thanks Laidback, for your comments;

Actually, "piggy backing" on the HK race is not my first choice, and, as you infer, it does have to do with the boat I have in mind. As a "scrutineer" for the race, your further advice would be very much appreciated.

I will be purchasing a MacGregor 26 in Macao and sailing / motoring it back to PI based on the conditions I encounter, and taking as much time as I need to get the boat safely "home" to the Phillipines. Since the Mac is not exactly a blue water cruiser, my route of choice was to use the SW monsoon to "harbor hop" on a WNW course, from HK up to the head just south of Shantou China (a place called Gangliao Wan). From there, almost the same heading will take me across the Taiwan straits to Pescador Island (about a 175 mile passage); then I'll tack or motor down the Taiwan coast to Tainan, Kaoschiung, and Kenting, before heading south to the Phillipines with stops in the Batanes Islands.

Probably the best idea would be to use the tail end of the SW monsoon in October or so to sail up the China coast. Then, I would dally in Taiwan for as long as necessary, in order to catch the NE monsoon south.

However, another plan I have is to do the same trip in the pre-typhoon season, starting a WNW course around May 1. In this way, I could enjoy the relative calm seas and balmy weather that is prevalent at that time of year. The problem with that route is that the final leg of the journey (from Kenting Taiwan to Appari, PI) involves island hopping a significant distance, most of which would have to be managed while heading almost straight into the SW monsoon. I am wondering how difficult that might actually be.

Living in Luzon, my experience is that the SW monsoon is not as strong as the NE monsoon. Also, I would be sailing a Mac 26 motor sailor which sports a 50 hp outboard motor, and, if worse came to worse, I could simply motor south from Kenting for most of the way to Aparri.

I am wondering what your take on such a course might be, and I have attached a sketch of the route along with this message to help clarify the detail and "stop overs". A key concern for me is whether sailing or motoring some 200 miles into the SW monsoon in mid-late May could prove overly daunting. Cross currents in the straits could possible compound the problem.

Also, I have heard that anchoring out along the China coast is not a problem, but that putting into port can be extremely expensive. Wondering if anyone knows if the Chinese authorities/Navy will bother us for anchoring out a couple of days before the actual passage across the straits.

As far as the Phillipinos are concerned, there seems to be no problem anchoring out in the Batanes islands on the way down from Kenting, as long as one does not go ashore. In fact, I have heard that there is really no problem going ashore as well, if "emergency" supplies are needed. The first port for clearing customs is my final destination "Aparri", so my main concern would be adequate overnight anchorages in the Batanes.

A final concern is maintaining radio contact with Chinese officials in case of an emergency, and maintaining internet contact along the China coast in order to check weather sites and the like.

Whatever details you could provide on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. Lots of questions to answer before I decide on the feasibility of this route, and, of course, some of these may go beyond the scope of this thread, but perhaps you can at least help to "point me in the right direction".

Check my route below, and feel free to comment as appropriate.

Thanks to all for the insights provided on this thread,

G2L

Couple of questions need answering,
Will the Boat carry a Macao Registration ?
If yes to the above ? ,, then taking it to Taiwan may present difficulties.
What import duty will be charged by th Philippines ?
Where in Luzon is intended being 1st port of call ?? Bolinao ??
Generally speaking the direct route from Macao to Luzon is the easiest - do you need to divert ??
I can give you contact in Zhuhai to advise on necessary paper work -- PM if needed,

[muskoka]

Gone2long,

We did the China Sea Race last April. Basically we held a course of about 140 and had the apparent wind about 60 degrees off the port bow for 4 days. The first 24 hours had almost no wind, the second day was about 30 knots, third day about 15 knots followed by light winds in the Luzon 'hole' on the last day. We were on a 50 foot mono.

We're heading down ourselves sometime in April and we may end up following the race down.

I personally wouldn't ever consider doing that passage in a Macgregor 26. It's a coastal cruiser unsuitable for offshore sailing. You should consider putting her in a container and shipping to the Phillipines. I'm sure there are lots of places down there where the shallow draft will get you into some beautiful anchorages.

[Gone2long]

1. The boat is owned by an American expat and is currently registered in Macao. Since I am also an American, the plan is to purchase the boat in Macao and apply for US Coast Guard documentation in my name, while readying the boat for the trip to PI. I would clear Macao flying the US flag and carrying USCG documentation with me when I arrive in Taiwan. If you see any possible drawbacks to that plan, please let me know.

2. Since the boat would be foreign flagged when it arrives in PI, I do not see a problem with "import tax". Apparently this tax can amount to as much as 100% of the purchase price for "luxury items" like sailboats, but according to my understanding, the Mac would have to be treated as a visiting yacht, not as a luxury item being imported, despite the fact that I am married to a Phillipina and am a permanent resident of the PI. Of course, since the boat would be foreign flagged, I would have to move the boat out of the country periodically. Once again, this is what I have been able to find out from researching these issues on my own, but please let me know if you have heard differently.

3. The first port of call would be Aparri. Please see the map attached to my original message. I will attach one here as well. Note also that I have heard that it is OK to stop in the Batanes Islands on the way down from Taiwan before clearing at Aparri, especially if the weather is threatening. My concern is that some of the anchorages are apparently fairly exposed, with rocky bottoms. Once again, any suggestions on the anchorages, route, etc. is sincerely appreciated.

4. Why I "need" to divert is because I will be sailing a MacGregor 26 X (older model, water ballast, designed for coastal cruising, etc.) and I would like to be able to quickly duck ashore if I were to run into problems with weather or equiptment failure due to high winds, currents, etc. My route is probably 200 miles or so longer than the direct route SW to MNL, but I have the time, would enjoy the peace of mind provided by all of my way points being not more than a day sail away, and, lastly I would enjoy visiting SW Taiwan (especially in summer).

To reiterate some of my major concerns, I am worried about any problem which I might encounter with the Chinese authorities while attempting to day sail up their coast and anchor out along the way before the passage to Taiwan. Another concern is my ability to communicate with the Chinese via radio in the event of an emergency. Lastly, I am wondering what I might encounter attempting to power or sail south from Taiwan to Aparri in May.

As per your Zuhai contact, I assume that it is the man who owns Seahorse Marine. If so, I have heard of him and am sure he could be of help, so please supply a contact number for him or for any other person who you feel may be able to help me.

Lastly, thank you sincerely for your questions and for any more advice (related to any of the above) that you could offer.

Best wishes,

G2L

PS - Anyone else on the thread, please feel free to chime in - regards to all.

[Gone2long]

Hi,

Yeah, I definitely understand the concerns. Check my response to "Laidback" above on my "preferred" route, and tell me if you have any knowledge of the challenges which I might encounter following that route.

Thanks for your input,

G2L

[muskoka]

A friend has sailed to Basco and Babuyan Islands. The anchorages are fairly exposed and there are frequently strong winds so it's pretty rolly. You'll need good ground tackle.

[delmarrey]

I'm not sure what a McGregor displaces but you may want to read this.

Vessel Qualifications for Documentation - In basic terms, a vessel must measure in volume at a minimum of five net tons. Depending the length beam, and overall depth, most vessels will need to be at least approximately twenty five feet in length to qualify. Vessel tonnage is determined by a measurement process rather than by calculating the vessel's weight or displacement. Depending on a vessel's length, the Cost Guard will require either a simple declaration from the owner, or a formal detailed measurement by an approved agency. Although the place of build is not an issue for recreational vessels, evidence that a vessel was built in the United States is required for a vessel which is to be used in a fisheries or coastwise trade. This is usually provided by the builder who will issue a Builder's Certificate, which also serves as the vessel's first evidence of title.