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Old 24-07-2019, 12:05   #16
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

Going to the USA with a provincially-issued license is no problem — I know this from personal experience. I’ve heard from people I trust that going to the Bahamas is also no problem.

Beyond this I definitely would get registered.
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Old 24-07-2019, 12:19   #17
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
Its 5 forms and a few pictures. no big deal and can all be done online, including payment.

It established ownership too ( but you give 36 shares to the queen!) where Licensing only proves you've paid sales tax!
It is only 5 forms, it requires knowledge of how to fill them out (TC won't take your call, I had to wait 3 days to have someone help me out), for example my wife and I own the boat, that means we each have 64 shares? Not 50\50 lol.

One form requires you to track down the company's address who made the boat and where it was assembled. That required digging up company history because they (as most are) have long been out of business pre-internet days. We had to find a notary to witness and sign one of the forms with us. None are in our small rural town and we had to make a 640km roundtrip to a city...during the weekdays...to get that done.

It's not impossible, but it's a bit more than just jotting down some forms quick on your laptop and calling it a day, especially if you're new to this. The other downside is if you do it wrong...you won't know for many months.
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Old 24-07-2019, 12:49   #18
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by PuttingDoctor View Post
In Canada “registration” is akin to the US “documentation.” Provincial license is like a state registration.
Transport Canada is slow but everything can be done online so there is that. I would suggest you do both.... Do your provincial license and then file your TC registration.
My registration took about 3 months last year.
Canadian Provisional licensing does not provide for titling whereas Canadian registration does provide titling.

Correction / clarification:

In the USA, a State can provide registration AND titling [they are not the same], or when a boat has been documented by the US Coast Guard that process is a Federal form of titling the boat and titling can NOT be done at both the Federal and the State government, titling is done by one or the other but not both. A USCG documented boat may still require registration by a State if the boat remains for a specified period of time in the State, but the State will not title the boat if it is has been documented by the USCG. Each State's rules are distinct. Similarly as to a foreign flagged boat, it may require registration in a State if it stays beyond a specified duration of time.

With registration at the State level, one also can confront taxations issues, such as property tax, excise tax, sales / use tax, etc. again each State laws are unique and within a State there can be local jurisdiction taxation by cities and counties.

What procedures must a small boat follow when entering the United States?


As of September 5, 2018, Small Vessel Reporting System (SVRS) is no longer in service and float plans are no longer required or accepted.

All operators of a non-commercial small vessel/pleasure boat must report immediately to the nearest U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Port of Entry upon arriving into the United States (U.S) from a foreign port or place.

You may report by:

Telephone
CBP ROAM app, or
In person (at the nearest Port of Entry when you return to the U.S.)
If referred for a formal entry, the operator of the pleasure boat/small vessel must provide a formal vessel entry on CBP Form 1300 within 48 hours. The operator will also need to report any foreign merchandise on the boat that is subject to duty.


Upon arrival in any port or place within the U.S., including, the U.S. Virgin Islands, any vessel from a foreign port or place, any foreign vessel from a port or place within the U.S., or any vessel of the U.S. carrying foreign merchandise for which entry has not been made, the master of the vessel must immediately report that arrival to the nearest CBP facility. The CBP officer may require the production of any documents or papers deemed necessary for the proper inspection/examination of the vessel, cargo, passenger, or crew.

CBP has designated specific reporting locations that are staffed during boating season for pleasure boats to report their arrival and be inspected by CBP. The master of the boat must report to CBP telephonically and be directed to the nearest Port of Entry to satisfy the face-to-face requirement, or report to the nearest designated reporting location along with the boat's passengers for inspection.

A cruising license exempt pleasure boats of certain countries from having to undergo formal entry and clearance procedures and can be obtained from the CBP Port Director at the first port of arrival in the United States. U.S. pleasure craft and foreign-flag vessels without a cruising license, which are 30 feet or longer in length, must pay an annual fee of $27.50 for the user fee decal. User Fee Decals may be purchased online through the CBP website.

While vessels that receive the CBP Cruising License may have some CBP reporting requirements reduced, the license does not exempt these vessels from the requirements for filing the Notice of Arrival (NOA) with the National Vessel Movement Center (NVMC) with the U.S. Coast Guard.

Under 33 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) § 160.205 required to file a NOA with NVMC prior to arrival into the US. For more information on the reporting requirements, please visit the National Vessel Movement Center (NVMC).

U.S. citizens should carry proof of citizenship such as a passport or birth certificate. Canadian citizens should present proof of Canadian citizenship; Mexican citizens may present a border-crossing card. Canadian, Mexican, and U.S. citizens must carry a passport if they are arriving in the U.S. from outside the Western Hemisphere.

Permanent residents of Canada who are nationals of a designated Visa Waiver Program country, may enter the United States by means of a pleasure boat along the northern border of the United States, if in possession of a valid, unexpired, passport issued by his or her country of nationality, and an unexpired multiple entry Form I-94W, Nonimmigrant Visa Waiver Arrival/Departure Form, or an unexpired passport, valid unexpired United States nonimmigrant visa and I-94 Arrival/Departure Form. Entry may be made only as a visitor for pleasure.

If your boat has anchored or tied up, you are considered to have entered the United States. No one shall board or leave the boat without first completing customs processing, unless permission to do so is granted by the CBP Officer in charge. The only exception to this requirement is to report arrival. If it is necessary for someone to leave the boat to report arrival to CBP, he or she must return to the boat after reporting and remain on board unless instructed otherwise. No one who arrived on that boat may leave until the CBP Officer grants permission to go ashore. A report of arrival into the United States should be made to the CBP office nearest to your point of entry.

For more information, you may visit our website on reporting requirements for Pleasure Boaters in the Caribbean and for a list of Pleasure Boat Locations.

For questions or inquiries, please contact the NVMC 24/7 line at 1-800-708-9823 or 1-304-264-2502 or send an email to sans@nvmc.uscg.gov

Identification:
All people on board (American or Canadian) must have a valid Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI) travel document, such as a passport or NEXUS card, to enter the U.S.A. Boaters should always record details of every transaction with CBP in your boat's log book. The boat must be made available for inspection and boarding by CBP officers if instructed to do so.

Have these ready for Reporting:
Boat licence number (or Registration)
Boat name
Boat length
For each person on board:
Name, date of birth
Passport, NEXUS, FAST card, EDL/EIC, or Secure Certificate of Indian Status
Dinghy licence and papers
(other documentation required i.e. pets)
Value of any declarable merchandise
U.S. marina at which you arrived or will arrive
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Old 24-07-2019, 13:04   #19
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Going to the USA with a provincially-issued license is no problem — I know this from personal experience. I’ve heard from people I trust that going to the Bahamas is also no problem.

Beyond this I definitely would get registered.
AFAIK provinces do not license boats. Whether registered or licensed, in Canada it is a function of the federal government. Both the pleasure craft license and vessel registration are done by Transport Canada.

Very different fom the US where States issue boat licenses and the federal government (Coast Guard) documents (in Canada "register") vessels.

In the Bahamas there are no problems with a Canadian licensed boat but I do know a case where a US Customs official refused entry to a Canadian licensed boat when he tried to enter (Key West) from the Bahamas. My friend sailed back to Bimini and tried later at another poe. I've only heard of this happening once. Prior to this incident he had cleared in to the US at least three times with just his pleasure craft license. To ensure no future problems he then registered his boat in Canada.
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Old 24-07-2019, 13:23   #20
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

Recommend that you pursue licensing online as you will immediately receive an acknowledgement number which you can use for upto 90 days until your license arrives.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...cence-1898.htm

"Apply online
To apply for a Pleasure Craft Licence online, access the Pleasure Craft Electronic Licensing System and follow all instructions.

Note: An advantage of applying online is that you receive an acknowledgment number. This number, when marked on the side of your pleasure craft, allows you to use your pleasure craft for 90 days while you await your Pleasure Craft Licence."
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Old 24-07-2019, 13:28   #21
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
AFAIK provinces do not license boats. Whether registered or licensed, in Canada it is a function of the federal government. Both the pleasure craft license and vessel registration are done by Transport Canada.

Very different fom the US where States issue boat licenses and the federal government (Coast Guard) documents (in Canada "register") vessels.

In the Bahamas there are no problems with a Canadian licensed boat but I do know a case where a US Customs official refused entry to a Canadian licensed boat when he tried to enter (Key West) from the Bahamas. My friend sailed back to Bimini and tried later at another poe. I've only heard of this happening once. Prior to this incident he had cleared in to the US at least three times with just his pleasure craft license. To ensure no future problems he then registered his boat in Canada.
Yes, thanks Vasco. I tried to skip over the complexity by stating it this way: “provincially issued”. The licenses are issued based on province of issuance, but you’re correct, it is still a federal license.

Good to know of that incident. I guess it reinforces the wisdom in just getting the registration done.
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Old 24-07-2019, 14:26   #22
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by Sailingdecourm View Post
Thanks for pointing that out over on sn. Sounds like the way I will need to go is to apply for the license as it is not as back logged. Then afterworlds apply for the registration and have it mailed down the coast to me
Exactly since you are time constrained. Pursue the licensing online as it will provide you with an acknowledgement number which you can use on your hull for up to 90 days until the license arrives.

The USA will require a license or a registration number, the acknowledgement number should qualify as such so long as you print out the acknowledgement and put those numbers on you hull.

Then you can also pursue registration after license.

Also I recommend that you fly the traditional Canadian flag on your boat and not the New Canadian flag so as to avoid instigating inspection by the US Customs and Border Patrol agents.
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Old 24-07-2019, 15:26   #23
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

I believe they told me on the phone when I called that in order to apply for a registration I would have to surrender my license. Can anyonespeak to this ?
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Old 24-07-2019, 16:01   #24
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by Sailingdecourm View Post
I believe they told me on the phone when I called that in order to apply for a registration I would have to surrender my license. Can anyonespeak to this ?
I don't see anything requiring surrender of the license document on the online registration entry webpage:

Reference: https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Comm/5/MVR/...r-vessel/order
Perhaps a copy of it is one of the supporting documents that you need to have .pdf formatted files to up load as part of your online registration process.

You can call their help line at 1 877 242-8770.

It would seem that you would only be allowed to have either a license or a registration and not both. The later of the two documents would seem to invalidate the previously issued document but perhaps you actually have to send in the prior document.
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Old 24-07-2019, 19:13   #25
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFromTheNorth View Post
It is only 5 forms, it requires knowledge of how to fill them out (TC won't take your call, I had to wait 3 days to have someone help me out), for example my wife and I own the boat, that means we each have 64 shares? Not 50\50 lol.

One form requires you to track down the company's address who made the boat and where it was assembled. That required digging up company history because they (as most are) have long been out of business pre-internet days. We had to find a notary to witness and sign one of the forms with us. None are in our small rural town and we had to make a 640km roundtrip to a city...during the weekdays...to get that done.

It's not impossible, but it's a bit more than just jotting down some forms quick on your laptop and calling it a day, especially if you're new to this. The other downside is if you do it wrong...you won't know for many months.
The 64 shares thing caught me out too (govt logic!!), but TC takes calls ( or they did a couple of years ago when I did mine) Not sure which form you used that needed a notary (unless you are incorporating the boat). as none of the 5 forms I used required a notary, just a witness for one of them (used a friend for that). The company address doesn't need much I just put in the city and zip code for my builder ( also long since defunct) They had no problem with it.

it is litterally just jotting down the info on a laptop! or it was for us! the whole process was very painless and quick, just took a couple of weeks from start to finish documents in hand.
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Old 25-07-2019, 13:09   #26
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

In 2016 I (a Canadian citizen) purchased a boat in Florida and got a license number based in Ontario (Toronto) while the boat was still in Florida. We sailed the boat, with the bill of sale and the license number printed out paper with us to Cuba and Bahamas and along the U.S. east coast back to Toronto, our home port, with no problems or questions about us operating or owning the boat. We had to pay the taxes when returning with the boat to Canada.
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Old 25-07-2019, 14:11   #27
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by pcmm View Post
The 64 shares thing caught me out too (govt logic!!), but TC takes calls ( or they did a couple of years ago when I did mine) Not sure which form you used that needed a notary (unless you are incorporating the boat). as none of the 5 forms I used required a notary, just a witness for one of them (used a friend for that). The company address doesn't need much I just put in the city and zip code for my builder ( also long since defunct) They had no problem with it.

it is litterally just jotting down the info on a laptop! or it was for us! the whole process was very painless and quick, just took a couple of weeks from start to finish documents in hand.
Perhaps you had a registration or title already? We didn't because no one ever had one made. In order to then register with no proof of title other than a hand written receipt we had to sign a specific form in front of a notary or oath administrator that basically swears we arent lying and didn't steal the boat.

I forgot about the dinghy. It's an 8ft portabote. Guess I should get on a license for it....
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Old 25-07-2019, 16:23   #28
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by GuyFromTheNorth View Post
Perhaps you had a registration or title already? We didn't because no one ever had one made. In order to then register with no proof of title other than a hand written receipt we had to sign a specific form in front of a notary or oath administrator that basically swears we arent lying and didn't steal the boat.

I forgot about the dinghy. It's an 8ft portabote. Guess I should get on a license for it....
I didn't have registration or title (boat bought in Annapolis) just a signed printed bill of sale ( the version that TC recommends ) from a private sale and the letter from the MD DoT noting that the vessel was removed from their system. We also got a license for the dinghy. that was even easier. just bill of sale, pictures and an email

You not having a proper bill of sale I can see why that required a notarized document!
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Old 25-07-2019, 16:31   #29
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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I didn't have registration or title (boat bought in Annapolis) just a signed printed bill of sale ( the version that TC recommends ) from a private sale and the letter from the MD DoT noting that the vessel was removed from their system. We also got a license for the dinghy. that was even easier. just bill of sale, pictures and an email

You not having a proper bill of sale I can see why that required a notarized document!
Well we had what everyone up here has. A receipt and a transferred license. That was more than enough to get the license to my name and pay taxes on it. Registration wanted an original ownership or a pre existing registration to transfer.

At any rate I just dealt with TC last week and just submitted forms. Anyone doing it NOW without a formal ownership from the factory or a pre existing registration will need an oath administrator or notary at one point.
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Old 25-07-2019, 18:45   #30
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Re: Canadian registration or licensing

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Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Recommend that you pursue licensing online as you will immediately receive an acknowledgement number which you can use for upto 90 days until your license arrives.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafet...cence-1898.htm

"Apply online
To apply for a Pleasure Craft Licence online, access the Pleasure Craft Electronic Licensing System and follow all instructions.

Note: An advantage of applying online is that you receive an acknowledgment number. This number, when marked on the side of your pleasure craft, allows you to use your pleasure craft for 90 days while you await your Pleasure Craft Licence."
This is valid in Canada but not acceptable to US Customs. They require original license form.
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