Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-12-2016, 19:19   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 371
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

https://www.yatco.com/vessel/info/20...ncouver-canada
Lojanica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2016, 20:14   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 371
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

That SC50 seems like a good project. Fast hull. Good shape. Just needs a few things to make it a little more comfortable for cruising. Could set-up to single hand. Anything bigger and it will be more difficult.

The price is right. Two things the USD is strong vs. CAD and the market for a vessel like that is slow. But if you're serious about fast cruising on a budget seems like a winner
Lojanica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2016, 20:34   #48
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 9' Fatty Knees.
Posts: 10,471
Images: 5
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

That SC50 is an incredible deal...and I think those are Canadian dollars too!
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2017, 08:18   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 371
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
That SC50 is an incredible deal...and I think those are Canadian dollars too!
Yeah. Not to hijack the thread but if this boat is still available at that price. Wow what a platform to build a performance cruiser.....
Lojanica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2017, 13:31   #50
Registered User
 
Celestialsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Back in Northern California working on the Ranch
Boat: Pearson 365 Sloop and 9' Fatty Knees.
Posts: 10,471
Images: 5
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

It's almost there now. However its now as Gucci as the other eye candy posted here.
__________________
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow - what a ride!"
Celestialsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2017, 18:57   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: PA, sail Chesapeake
Boat: Lots of boats.
Posts: 390
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

The relentless march of technology waits for no one! I joined this forum less than 2 years ago. People talked about full keel boats with tons of displacement. Although they have been around for a while, the conversation is finally moving towards fast cats and wide monos as cruising sailboats. And why not? Large comfy interiors and way faster speeds. Two attributes that scream cruiser. Sure, not exactly classic lines, but like modern cars, you get used to the looks.

My Mac 26X is a boat that generates better speed up wind when heeled. It has a flat bottom to plane under power, but the design can be used to good advantage both up and down wind. Lots of freeboard (4 feet) creates problems when flat, but creates a nice profile when on a lean and the double rudders maintain good control. These new monos take all this to another level. Throw some horsepower on them and they would motor as fast as they sail (or faster). The previous owner took my 26X with 115 HP to 30 MPH. Not a speed many would be comfortable at in a sailboat. Given adequate power, I'm sure planning at 15-20 knots is not outside the capability of these new "cruising" sailboats. Progress marches on...
hsi88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2017, 05:04   #52
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by hsi88 View Post
The relentless march of technology waits for no one! I joined this forum less than 2 years ago. People talked about full keel boats with tons of displacement. Although they have been around for a while, the conversation is finally moving towards fast cats and wide monos as cruising sailboats. And why not? Large comfy interiors and way faster speeds. Two attributes that scream cruiser. Sure, not exactly classic lines, but like modern cars, you get used to the looks.

My Mac 26X is a boat that generates better speed up wind when heeled. It has a flat bottom to plane under power, but the design can be used to good advantage both up and down wind. Lots of freeboard (4 feet) creates problems when flat, but creates a nice profile when on a lean and the double rudders maintain good control. These new monos take all this to another level. Throw some horsepower on them and they would motor as fast as they sail (or faster). The previous owner took my 26X with 115 HP to 30 MPH. Not a speed many would be comfortable at in a sailboat. Given adequate power, I'm sure planning at 15-20 knots is not outside the capability of these new "cruising" sailboats. Progress marches on...
Regarding your type of boat who would think to cross the Atlantic with one? Two years ago a boat of the same type crossed the Atlatic on the ARC and doing good sailing speed. I was not very convinced about the sailing performances of the boat but after reading the test sail made by a tester that was so lee convinced as I was, it seems that the boat sails relatively well, meaning better than most old full keel boats of the same size

Made at the time a post on my blog about it. This is the boat:
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2017, 05:19   #53
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,735
Images: 2
pirate Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

As a sailor who is also a biker.. performance and safety don't often march hand in hand.. as some friends in the cemetery would/could confirm..
__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".

"It is better to die standing proud, than to live a lifetime on ones knees.."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2017, 07:57   #54
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
As a sailor who is also a biker.. performance and safety don't often march hand in hand.. as some friends in the cemetery would/could confirm..
Yes, the boat sails remarkably well but should not even be allowed to enter the ARC since it is not a Class A boat. A very interesting and fun coastal boat.

The boat could be designed to be a Class A and to be more seaworthy but that would diminish its performance under engine. As it is the boat is not sufficiently ballasted to be certified as class A and some stupid clames are made on the website, like saying: "Enjoy your boat and explore the world!"

And it is not crossing the Atlantic on one or making a circumnavigation that is going to change that. Yes that is true the crossed the Atlantic and said that they were going to circumnavigate but it seems they gave up since no more is posted on their site.
Kaislikosta Karibialle | Sailjet
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 22:51   #55
Registered User
 
SV Windrush II's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere in the Philippines
Boat: Mariner 40 Ketch
Posts: 531
Images: 18
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

I am coming to the conclusion that the new modern so-called "Pizza" style boats are really designed for space and comfort. And designing them after the new mono racing boats for the reason to go faster under average cruising conditions is only marginally more efficient.
Yes they do sail somewhat faster in certain conditions and when not loaded down, but I cannot imagine a hull designed for planing a very good sailing shape if loaded down very much.
All the videos of these new designs I have seen sailing, are either new models with nothing in them in protected seas, or ultra-light boats that are not applicable to cruising like the one shown in the earlier posts.

What I am impressed with is how stable and smooth the new boats sail, at least in the videos I saw in mostly protected waters without ocean swell.

I would think if the hull cannot get up on plane, then its best to design it to move through the water with the least amount resistance. Yes if the new designs could plane, they would have far less resistance than older designs, and may be possible if flying enough canvas, but i don't think the average cruising couple would be pushing the boat that hard normally.
Therefore I believe fast cruisers are best designed for semi-displacement, so you have some lifting effect but still mostly in the water because of the load, at the same time creates more of a cushion ride when pounding into the wind, or getting hit from a breaking wave astern.
So unless they can get the cruising Pizza boats up on plane, I don't think we will see a huge difference in speed. and the challenge is I believe a boat needs to be going at-least 12 knots to start planning, even faster depending on load.

So far the fastest modern cruising Pizza boat I saw during a trial run was a $450,000 54' Jeaneau doing 8+ knots on a broad reach in 30 knot winds, that's maybe 1 knot faster than my $40,000 40' full keel 1967 wooden ketch loaded for trans Pacific crossing that only has a 31' waterline length. For some reason with all of today's technology, I'm expecting more?
__________________
Fair Winds to all
SV Windrush II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 08:21   #56
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV Windrush II View Post

So far the fastest modern cruising Pizza boat I saw during a trial run was a $450,000 54' Jeaneau doing 8+ knots on a broad reach in 30 knot winds, that's maybe 1 knot faster than my $40,000 40' full keel 1967 wooden ketch loaded for trans Pacific crossing that only has a 31' waterline length. For some reason with all of today's technology, I'm expecting more?
The laws of fluid dynamics do not change... only approaches to optimizing a design to deal with them.

Most of the modern designs seem to be driven by new aesthetics and accommodation ideas... And many of them are quite clever and innovative... such as the Jenneau 51 I saw in a marketing video. That's a pretty big boat and so they have a lot of real estate to work with. I can't imagine it out performs older designs in a remarkable manner in all conditions.... and if its performance is comparable to other boats of similar LWL and so on.... who cares? It's a matter of do you like the aesthetics... does it perform OK for the intended use.... is the price point right for you and do you like the deck plan, the cockpit, the below decks and so on.

Why should makers come up with newer sleek looking designs?
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 09:25   #57
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

The Jenneau Is not a modern fast cruiser, it is a modern cruising boat that has borrowed the asthetic clues from modern fast cruisers. If you think the Pogo 50 is only a knot faster in those conditions... well she isn't.

Yes these boats need to be kept light, but a huge amount of that is structural. Meaning they don't have nearly the ballast you would expect of a similarly sized traditional cruising boat. They get around that by having very deep keels, which throws those old rules of thumb about ballast/displacement ratios out the window. Then to solve the draft concerns they switch from fixed keels to daggerboard or swing keels.

In the conditions you mentioned figure the pogo50 should be averaging the 18-20kn range. Sure she would be hit by a full cruising load, but so long as you are sensible figure she would be slowed down to the 15-17kn range. Still fast by any standard.
__________________
Greg

- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
Stumble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 09:40   #58
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

greg.... sounds too fiddly for the average cruiser... and more like a racer. But matters not to me.... as I am not in the market for a new boat.

It's all interesting.
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 09:45   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,735
Images: 2
pirate Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Can't see many folk/couples finding pounding along at 15-17kts very pleasant without the possibility of Kudo's, Cup and Prize money at the other end..
__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".

"It is better to die standing proud, than to live a lifetime on ones knees.."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 10:19   #60
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 6,140
Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Can't see many folk/couples finding pounding along at 15-17kts very pleasant without the possibility of Kudo's, Cup and Prize money at the other end..
Quoting what an old solo cruising sailor said to a friend of mine when he asked him if sailing solo a fast small Dragonfly was not too much: "Well, I can always go slower but you can't go faster"
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Modern Liveable Design, "Bluewater", Affordable - Pick any Two waterdog Monohull Sailboats 30 10-03-2016 01:45
For Sale: Modern classic Mustang 45 pdechateau Classifieds Archive 2 04-11-2014 05:57
Winches How Modern Design Has Failed Us.... Lagoon4us General Sailing Forum 72 29-10-2012 01:11

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.