Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by SV Windrush II

I agree, the Baltic yachts are awesome and the newer yachts are made from pre-preg carbon fiber laminate which is brutally strong. May need to save a few more pennies though hahaha

Yes the carbon ones are expensive.

But you can pick up one of the earlier ones, say a 38 DP, at often less than 100k.

I think, given the performance/finish/comfort - pretty hard to beat (ban a similar size and era Swan perhaps).

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resi...=1477584478000

Cheers,
b.

[brownoarsman]

So, when I used to flip houses, I hated cutting, pegging, installing, and mortaring tile. Absolutely hated it. Then, when I owned houses, I hated cleaning the mold out of the grout. But yet, people loved having tile in a space that they used maybe twenty minutes per day and nice bathrooms sold houses.

For myself, gelcoat interior, spray it down when you need to clean it and call it done! I'm just lucky that seems to fit with the design ethos on a lot of these boats due to the weight savings

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes the carbon ones are expensive.

But you can pick uo one of the earlier ones, say a 38 DP, at often less than 100k.

I thing, given the performance/finish/comfort - pretty hard to beat (ban a similar size and era Swan perhaps).

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resi...=1477584478000

Cheers,
b.

Beautiful boat, agree very similar in perfomance and quality compared with a Swan of that era..

[SV Windrush II]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes the carbon ones are expensive.

But you can pick up one of the earlier ones, say a 38 DP, at often less than 100k.

I think, given the performance/finish/comfort - pretty hard to beat (ban a similar size and era Swan perhaps).

b.

The 38 is too small for our needs but I would definitely consider the 51. Found one here

1985 Baltic 51 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

She's a beauty

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by SV Windrush II

The 38 is too small for our needs but I would definitely consider the 51. Found one here

1985 Baltic 51 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - au.yachtworld.com

She's a beauty

Those Swan style old era cockpits are the hell,the helsman is like embeded in a cell aft, the second entrance station is ok to assist the person at the helm , otherwise this cockpit call for be hooked unless in benign weather..

C&C design built by baltic, i remember see a 62 design by C&C long time ago, beautiful lines....

[smj]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

So, when I used to flip houses, I hated cutting, pegging, installing, and mortaring tile. Absolutely hated it. Then, when I owned houses, I hated cleaning the mold out of the grout. But yet, people loved having tile in a space that they used maybe twenty minutes per day and nice bathrooms sold houses.

For myself, gelcoat interior, spray it down when you need to clean it and call it done! I'm just lucky that seems to fit with the design ethos on a lot of these boats due to the weight savings

[emoji106]🏻give me a prefab fiberglass shower over tile shower any day! But your right, the tile does sell.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Yes. Dehler 34 - from the new line. The old line is also competitive but the new one is faster and more up to date.
.....
Image attribution: http://www.tollesbury-marina.co.uk/e...n350bsmall.jpg

b.

I have a problem with the Elan 350 (now E4): it sails well but I just would like to have more ballast and a better RM at 90º. 26% B/D with a torpedo keel at 2.15m is a bit better than what offer some main market boats but I prefer the B/D of 29% of the Azuree 33 with the same draft and also with a torpedo keel. The interior is also nicer.

I don't like also the "styling" of the cabinets on the new Elan E4.

[robert sailor]

Yikes! I agree with you on the cabinets...meh!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by brownoarsman

Yup! From this discussion and a little light googling, I have this list to dig into deeper for performance cruisers in the 30'-36' range:
Pogo
Django
RM
Azuree 33
Arcona 34
Dehler 34

But if there are any others, I would love to hear about them! Have been reading the blog a bit too

I visited today the Django 9.80 and I liked what I saw. They improved considerably the interior regarding the first boats (that I saw too) and are opening to suggestions to improve more and in one or two points it is not dificult neither expensive.

They have a big advantage in what regards Pogo in what regards cockpit lookers: Plenty of space and a good storage on a locker under the cockpit deck with access by three points. Good interior storage too.

The Django is a bit slower than the Pogo but faster than all the others, except probably upwind in what regards the Arcona 34.

On my blog you will find a comparaison between the Django 9.80 and the Azuree 33c, bothe boats at the water at the same time, quoted from a French magazine.

Pogo, Django and Azuree belong to the family of boats that have hull derived from solo racers. Arcona ans Dehler are boats from the family of IRC racers.

If you prefer the characteristics of the hulls derived from IRC racers you can join the new J112, made in France. It is truly a gorgeous boat with a great cruising interior and will oversail any of the boats above upwind and downwind with a crew....but you will not like the price

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

So no hull and deck warranty, a personalized one hee?
Make you a favor and visit the french RM fórum , one guy in a RM1200 have a isue when the jib track pull the deck out of the hull,, its a fun Reading..... to be clear if i am in the panamá canal with one of this boats and have a warranty isue i wonder what kind of support can i get from the Brand. 155.000 EUROS i cant expect nothing else... Beneteau i think offer a 7 years hull and deck warranty against osmossis, or estructural isues?

That is ridiculous. if I am not mistaken they said the warranty was 2 years on every parts of the boat. Personalized means that if you are on the Pacific and have a problem they will find a way to deal with it, with pictures or sending someone there and will agree with the reparation on a good local shipyard, one that they will approve. That's what I call personalised, meaning out of the dealership.

Put the link to that case you are talking about. It seems you are talking about a boat under warranty but a 1200 is a 10? year old boat and obviously out of warranty. Their forum is a reference in what regards boats having few issues and probably there are no brand with the owners so connected as the ones from RM, and for a good reason, they love their boats and after having one substitute some years later by another. There are few brands if any where the owners remain so faithful to it.

[neilpride]

Where i can found that 2 years warranty ??? Link?

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV Windrush II

One of the reasons why I would not chose a Pogo, RM or the likes is because of the finish work and what I would consider a cruising interior. They can have great sailing ability but I would not want to sacrifice many of the things we are looking for in a cruising boat.

This is what I would consider to be a cruising interior













So what we are really looking for is a interior we can live in without sacrificing to much on the performance side.

Here is a Passport 545 in 12 knots of wind sailing at 8 knot boat speed. not to bad! I can imagine what it can do if the wind cranked up in to 20's

https://youtu.be/Gzuz6Fin3-o

8k (maybe a bit more) with 12k speed is what my boat makes and it is a 41ftboat, not a 55ft boat.

The interior seems to be of good quality but you will not find that conservative style on european boats, even very expensive ones. It is all a question of taste but what is not a question of taste is the weight of the solid wood cabinets and the much bigger chances of changing shape due to humidity.

But that is not the problem I see on that boat, in what regards having won a boat of the year award. The interior can be conservative but the interior is not a functional part of the boat in what regards sailing (if we discount the extra weight) but the outdated hull and keel are and it is just odd seing an outdated boat winning a prize that should refer to what is best produced on that year. I don't understand how can that apply to a boat that has at least a 20 year outdated hull and keel design.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Where i can found that 2 years warranty ??? Link?

Do what I have done, go and talk to them. I was with them two days ago talking about buying a new 1370....but the delivery time of 18 months put it out of the equation.

They offer one year warranty on all used RM boats sold trough them.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Polux

Do what I have done, go and talk to them. I was with them two days ago talking about buying a new 1370....but the delivery time of 18 months put it out of the equation.

They offer one year warranty on all used RM boats sold trough them.

Ok so not any warranty in their website , and probably i dont know what kind of warranty can give you under a sale contract, 2 years i laugh my ass,, is ridiculous but is what you say... so we need to take for granted i guess.....

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Polux

Do what I have done, go and talk to them. I was with them two days ago talking about buying a new 1370....but the delivery time of 18 months put it out of the equation.

They offer one year warranty on all used RM boats sold trough them.

This could be what you get from a small Yard when the owners of a RM 1050 have structural problems and the yard refuse to take any warranty..

In french and traslated...

Depuis deux mois et demi, nous échangeons des mails avec le chantier Fora Marine constructeur du bateau concernant les réparations du décollement du pont des cloisons sous-jacentes au niveau du rail d'écoute de GV ainsi que de celui des lattes teck du tableau arrière basculant. Et rien de probant à ce jour. Nous sommes en Turquie où des entreprises compétentes ont été contactées, ont devisé et ont essuyé un refus pour leur prix trop élevé (?). A priori, ça sent la mauvaise volonté flagrante du chantier selon la technique bien connue de faire traîner pour pousser le client à l'abandon. A force de correspondre, il s'avère qu'au moins un autre RM du même type a, entre autres, les mêmes problèmes. Combien d'autres encore ? Comment faire pour contraindre le chantier à respecter ses engagements contractuels et à faire, ou faire faire, ces réparations (vices de fabrication) dans des délais raisonnables ?

English....

For the past two and a half months we have been exchanging emails with the Fora Marine yard builder of the ship concerning the repairs of the decking of the underlying bulkheads at the GV track and the teak slats of the tilting transom . And nothing convincing to date. We are in Turkey where competent companies have been contacted, have quoted and have been refused for their price too high (?). A priori, it feels the blatant will of the site according to the well-known technique of dragging to push the customer to abandon. By dint of matching, it turns out that at least one other RM of the same type has, among other things, the same problems. How many more? How to compel the site to respec
t its contractual commitments and to make, or have done, these repairs (manufacturing defects) in a reasonable timeframe?

See why i ask for what kind of warranty in a Plywood boat...
http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&...IncrKnDS9ZXdLA