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Old 26-01-2017, 11:38   #241
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Yes, they are all stupid so stupid that they make a long waiting list (18 month) to buy a more expensive one when they could have a cheaper one with better quality right away
I found hard to believe than a 35 ft Ply boat could have a value 155.000 euros... may i ask you what kind of custommer support they have outside of the EU... what kind of hull and deck warranty offer to the customers?
Why 18 months? small yard i can understand,, but i dont see any reason to support 155.000 euros, its marine Ply and epoxy jesus......
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Old 26-01-2017, 12:25   #242
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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I found hard to believe than a 35 ft Ply boat could have a value 155.000 euros... may i ask you what kind of custommer support they have outside of the EU... what kind of hull and deck warranty offer to the customers?
Why 18 months? small yard i can understand,, but i dont see any reason to support 155.000 euros, its marine Ply and epoxy jesus......
iF we compare to several American yards, it is now a big one, making 45 boats a year. Regarding customer support out of Europe it has to be a personalized one if the boat is under warranty but I suppose that they don't have complains since they sail everywhere and keep selling more and more boats.

They changed shipyard just some months ago for dealing with the bigger demand. I guess they will have to change again for a bigger one to be able to produce more boats/year.
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Old 26-01-2017, 12:41   #243
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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iF we compare to several American yards, it is now a big one, making 45 boats a year. Regarding customer support out of Europe it has to be a personalized one if the boat is under warranty but I suppose that they don't have complains since they sail everywhere and keep selling more and more boats.

They changed shipyard just some months ago for dealing with the bigger demand. I guess they will have to change again for a bigger one to be able to produce more boats/year.
So no hull and deck warranty, a personalized one hee?
Make you a favor and visit the french RM fórum , one guy in a RM1200 have a isue when the jib track pull the deck out of the hull,, its a fun Reading..... to be clear if i am in the panamá canal with one of this boats and have a warranty isue i wonder what kind of support can i get from the Brand. 155.000 EUROS i cant expect nothing else... Beneteau i think offer a 7 years hull and deck warranty against osmossis, or estructural isues?
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Old 26-01-2017, 13:18   #244
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Yes you can, in what regards the bold part above, but you would have to make another distinction there between solo boats and boats designed to be sailed by a crew.

.
Thanks Polux! You and Stumble cleared it up for me admirably. I do find myself sailing upwind quite often, largely due to impatience, so it is certainly something to consider! I don't race though, so if the answer is bearing off and enjoying myself more, I can certainly do that!

Fortunately, time and money both fit the Pogo, it's just a question of how one chooses to spend them! After my current project finishes up, this summer is spoken for with a cruise to Maine on the current boat, and then passing the winter in Argentina and Australia. Then, it's either back to work for a year and a decision whether to reward myself with a Pogo and an ocean crossing, go back for my PhD, or grow up
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Old 26-01-2017, 13:35   #245
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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a decision whether to reward myself with a Pogo and an ocean crossing, go back for my PhD, or grow up
Growing up is highly over rated, and often leads to ossification. AVOID!!

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Old 26-01-2017, 14:16   #246
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Growing up is highly over rated, and often leads to ossification. AVOID!!

Jim (who often wonders what he will do when HE grows up?)
9 years until I'm 40, Jim, which is I believe when you and Ann set sail for Australia for good! I'd say you've done a good job of avoiding ossification
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Old 26-01-2017, 15:37   #247
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Thanks Polux! You and Stumble cleared it up for me admirably. I do find myself sailing upwind quite often, largely due to impatience, so it is certainly something to consider! I don't race though, so if the answer is bearing off and enjoying myself more, I can certainly do that!

Fortunately, time and money both fit the Pogo, it's just a question of how one chooses to spend them! After my current project finishes up, this summer is spoken for with a cruise to Maine on the current boat, and then passing the winter in Argentina and Australia. Then, it's either back to work for a year and a decision whether to reward myself with a Pogo and an ocean crossing, go back for my PhD, or grow up
If you are talking about the Pogo 30, there are another boat that costs about the same price that offers a lot more interior space and comfort that has a good seaworthiness, it is well built and even if it does not plan as easily as the Pogo it offers a good performance, the azuree 33c. You can have more information about it on my blog.

If I liked the boat already I liked even more after a bad "Middle of the sea race" with nasty winds (50K) and bad seas, where half of the boats abandoned and where the little 33c, the smallest boat racing, was among the ones that finished, winning the two handed division. One of the two crew men was the boat designer, I would say a NA that trusts his designs, to keep on sailing on those conditions

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Old 26-01-2017, 16:20   #248
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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If you are talking about the Pogo 30, there are another boat that costs about the same price that offers a lot more interior space and comfort that has a good seaworthiness, it is well built and even if it does not plan as easily as the Pogo it offers a good performance, the azuree 33c. You can have more information about it on my blog.

If I liked the boat already I liked even more after a bad "Middle of the sea race" with nasty winds (50K) and bad seas, where half of the boats abandoned and where the little 33c, the smallest boat racing, was among the ones that finished, winning the two handed division. One of the two crew men was the boat designer, I would say a NA that trusts his designs, to keep on sailing on those conditions
Azuree makes a good quality yacht. I may consider the Azuree 46 to take a look at although still on the small side for us
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Old 26-01-2017, 18:55   #249
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
If you are talking about the Pogo 30, there are another boat that costs about the same price that offers a lot more interior space and comfort that has a good seaworthiness, it is well built and even if it does not plan as easily as the Pogo it offers a good performance, the azuree 33c. You can have more information about it on my blog.

If I liked the boat already I liked even more after a bad "Middle of the sea race" with nasty winds (50K) and bad seas, where half of the boats abandoned and where the little 33c, the smallest boat racing, was among the ones that finished, winning the two handed division.
Yup! From this discussion and a little light googling, I have this list to dig into deeper for performance cruisers in the 30'-36' range:
Pogo
Django
RM
Azuree 33
Arcona 34
Dehler 34

But if there are any others, I would love to hear about them! Have been reading the blog a bit too
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Old 26-01-2017, 18:56   #250
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

One of the reasons why I would not chose a Pogo, RM or the likes is because of the finish work and what I would consider a cruising interior. They can have great sailing ability but I would not want to sacrifice many of the things we are looking for in a cruising boat.

This is what I would consider to be a cruising interior













So what we are really looking for is a interior we can live in without sacrificing to much on the performance side.

Here is a Passport 545 in 12 knots of wind sailing at 8 knot boat speed. not to bad! I can imagine what it can do if the wind cranked up in to 20's

https://youtu.be/Gzuz6Fin3-o
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Old 26-01-2017, 19:26   #251
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Aureus Yachts is another consideration if I had the $$$

They really have designed something that has the performance without sacrificing livability. Although the interior style is a little to boring for me but could live with it.
And because I have been in the Carbon fiber world of Aerospace I like the fact that it is a Carbon fiber boat. Light-years more advanced and double the strength of any plywood. Especially if they use directional ply pre-preg and autoclaves as the manufacturing method which I believe they do.





Definitely would not choose the black interior.

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Old 27-01-2017, 04:16   #252
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

Yes. Dehler 34 - from the new line. The old line is also competitive but the new one is faster and more up to date.

Also the Elans.

But you want to decide how much of that funky wood-imitation panels you want inside: furniture garbage does not add to boat performance.

Still, I repeat, from a Mariner to a Baltic the step up in performance shpould be big enough. And you get a way better cruising interior on a Baltic than you get in any very modern and very light high performance oriented design.

Image attribution: http://www.tollesbury-marina.co.uk/e...n350bsmall.jpg

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Old 27-01-2017, 04:38   #253
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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Yes. Dehler 34 - from the new line. The old line is also competitive but the new one is faster and more up to date.

Also the Elans.

But you want to decide how much of that funky wood-imitation panels you want inside: furniture garbage does not add to boat performance.

Still, I repeat, from a Mariner to a Baltic the step up in performance shpould be big enough. And you get a way better cruising interior on a Baltic than you get in any very modern and very light high performance oriented design.

Image attribution: http://www.tollesbury-marina.co.uk/e...n350bsmall.jpg

b.

I agree, the Baltic yachts are awesome and the newer yachts are made from pre-preg carbon fiber laminate which is brutally strong. May need to save a few more pennies though hahaha
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Old 27-01-2017, 04:58   #254
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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One of the reasons why I would not chose a Pogo, RM or the likes is because of the finish work and what I would consider a cruising interior. They can have great sailing ability but I would not want to sacrifice many of the things we are looking for in a cruising boat.

This is what I would consider to be a cruising interior













So what we are really looking for is a interior we can live in without sacrificing to much on the performance side.

Here is a Passport 545 in 12 knots of wind sailing at 8 knot boat speed. not to bad! I can imagine what it can do if the wind cranked up in to 20's

https://youtu.be/Gzuz6Fin3-o
Frankly I don't care for this one's interior. It's apparent what the design references... but it almost has the look of a copy and paste design using old design elements... Of course well crafted...
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Old 27-01-2017, 05:02   #255
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Re: Your opinion of classic VS Modern Boat Design

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I agree, the Baltic yachts are awesome and the newer yachts are made from pre-preg carbon fiber laminate which is brutally strong. May need to save a few more pennies though hahaha
Yes the carbon ones are expensive.

But you can pick uo one of the earlier ones, say a 38 DP, at often less than 100k.

I thing, given the performance/finish/comfort - pretty hard to beat (ban a similar size and era Swan perhaps).

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resi...=1477584478000

Cheers,
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