Would You Allow this . . . ?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Capt Hook

I'm the only one that's said no to this so far. In the UK they've probably got the most relaxed regulations in the world in that you can buy pretty much anything and without any training, licencing or insurance you can do whatever you want. There are guys there sailing 40 foot boats that don't even know the rules of the road. Chris

From BBC news website.

But James Stevens, training manager for the Royal Yachting Association, said according to the marine accident rate, the UK had a better safety record than many European countries where legislation is in place.
"Very few people take to the sea without any training, they're actually quite sensible. They understand they are not just putting themselves at risk but the investment in their boat.
"They know the sea's dangerous and they don't really need the government to tell them."
The Ministry of Transport told the programme there were no plans for legislation. For the size of the UK population, it said accident rates appeared low, but the Marine and Coastguard Agency is continuing research to quantify risks. (end)


In the UK, I would think that the vast majority of sailors would be taken aback that anyone would even consider asking such a question.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by conachair

In the UK, I would think that the vast majority of sailors would be taken aback that anyone would even consider asking such a question.

I think the weather plays a large part - folk do not get lulled into a false sense of competence by warm crystal blue seas and hot weather - the sea simply does not always look an inviting place to sail off into!

[stevelxls]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think the weather plays a large part - folk do not get lulled into a false sense of competence by warm crystal blue seas and hot weather - the sea simply does not always look an inviting place to sail off into!

Totally agree. Even in summer the North Sea can leave a lot to be desired.
I was on the East coast (where we sail) the weekend before last... windchill to minus, driving rain and poor visibility. Boy was I glad the boat was out for the winter!

The Jester challengers, apart from their vast experience are hardened, responsible and above all sensible. One entrant, realising that as his boat speed was slightly down it meant he would be approaching the other side of the pond too near the start of the hurricane season to be safe, took the responsible option and retired.

[JohnnyB]

No-bodies business but their own.

[rebel heart]

No one's mandating them to do anything, and they (the contestants) are the types of people that will do crazy things in their lives anyway. We're planning a circumnavigation, and there are plenty of people who (wrongfully) think that taking a small boat around the world is beyond stupid.

I'm fortunate that I can do what I want to do in this world to a point, and I don't have an over-arching big brother keeping me in line.

[GordMay]

Frank Boelter has constructed a paper boat packs and is sailing it up the Elbe.
More:
Origami For Sailors: Giant Paper Boat Made from Tetrabriks, Allows Real Sailors on Board

[Morgan Paul]

Would you allow this...???

Who the hell has the right to stifel someone.
That they are endowed by their Creator

with certain unalienable Rights,

That among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

[Alan Wheeler]

There are limits.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

There are limits.

Maybe so, but who sets the limits? In the case of the jester challange who could possibly be more expert than the guys themselves who have done this thing before and know what they are talking about. Perhaps they are more like a self help group than the more traditional competitive view of a race, exchanging ideas and experiences all the time. Yachting and Boating World forums: Viewing forum: Jester Challenge
I think anyone who said no to the poll hasn't looked at who takes part in the jester challange and what it actually represents.

[Alan Wheeler]

Maybe so, but who sets the limits?

Exactly.

who could possibly be more expert than the guys themselves

And there is the crux of the entire argument. Who judges that the guy's themselves are capable. So we have two directions of making sure the race is safe. Either a "Somebody" tests the sailor to see if they are capable, which is going to bring up all sorts of arguments, or a "Somebody" is going to have to set a standard for both Boat and Sailor to meet. It not only protects the Skipper and boat, but crew as well. I just finished an article where some skipper was challenged as to why he was leaving for the Islands in Cyclone season. His reply was, "I have experianced two Hurricanes in the Atlantic, I am sure I can handle a Cyclone in the Pacific". His crew was listening and the next morning the skipper awoke to find all his crew had left. The moral I am trying to put into that story was, sometimes the crew don't know and only presume the Skipper and boat is at a standard and capable of sailing the race. A very experianced crewman may be able to say, hey we aint going untill that MOBP is painted Rescue orange. But less experianced crew may not be aware of the questions to ask.
To venture out into the ocean ill prepared is like playing Russian Roulette. You may make it, but one chamber is always loaded. If authorities arrest you for wanting to jump off a bridge, the surely there has to be someone that has the power to say, nup you don't make the grade to go off into the wild blue yonder.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

Exactly.

Who judges that the guy's themselves are capable.

Indeed, therein lies the problem. Who watches the watchmen. Everything I see about the jester makes me think that these guys are more than capable of looking after themselves but in a broader view the topic is quite tricky. Sailing in the UK is pretty much self regulating and it does seem to work, (almost) everyone is sensible enough to learn how to sail (which is not necessarily the same thing as getting formal training). Personally I am deeply wary of any rules made around a table in a boardroom by people of may or may not know what they are talking about and may or may not apply to my boat. But saying that I would tend to agree with a comittee who tried to tell me that possibly sailing into a cyclone was not a good idea

[dana-tenacity]

Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler

If authorities arrest you for wanting to jump off a bridge, the surely there has to be someone that has the power to say, nup you don't make the grade to go off into the wild blue yonder.

I always thought if someone wanted to jump off a bridge - let them.

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I always thought if someone wanted to jump off a bridge - let them.

The issue is the aftermath.

a) someone has to pick up the pieces, which is costly and unpleasant.
b) who pays the continuing costs of care if the suicide attempt is not immediately successful?

There has to be some sort of balance between self and society.

Connemara

[Alan Wheeler]

I always thought if someone wanted to jump off a bridge - let them.

I agree with Conemara. But to add, that line really shows the lack of compassion and Humanity in the world today.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Morgan Paul

Who the hell has the right to stifel someone.
That they are endowed by their Creator

with certain unalienable Rights,

That among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

No they are not.

a) their is NO "Creator" (or Santa Claus . Sorry ).

b) everyone is born with the clothes they can stand up in and have no "rights" to anything - from day 1 everything (Life, Liberty, Happiness....and boats ) is or has been earned or fought for......by yerself and yer forebears.

c) for everything yer have now, or will have in the future, their is always someone somewhere who wants to take it away from you - whether this be a Pirate , a Banker or yer own Government....if anyone thinks that they have been born with a "right" to better than b#gger all then they are in for a lifetime of dissapointment. or are a Trustafarian

d) because their are no "inalienable (thats a fooker to spell ) rights" (nor any inalienable right and wrong nor any good and bad) societies developed the rule of law, under which we gave each other rights in exchange for receiving the exact same - eventually after enlightenment (pun intended) in the West we even stopped basing the rule of law on folk having conversations with the Clouds.

So endeth the lesson / rant


*PS, gods exist when renaming boats and Santa Claus does exist, at Xmas