Worth salvaging this on a limited budget

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

You're gonna get pushback from most everyone on any project like this, mostly because people (in general) are afraid of too much manual labor. I'd say if the mechanical parts are in good order, and the decks/hull aren't delaminated and rotted, I'd run with it. Looks like a fairly salvageable boat.

Yep the frequent “You have too much time on your hand’s” Whilst I completed projects is frequently blurted out by the people that ‘hanging out’ sitting around and watching sports etc. They do this to bring you down to their level because they themselves believe they can’t reach your level of accomplishment.
I heard the same thing on this project both in person and on schoolie forums, I distantly remember so nagger saying I could NEVER have a rear engine diesel pusher with a back door so I built one, “you’ll never sell that for more than $2k” They were off by several zeros..

[Shanachie]

Hey Sunkenanchor, I think we're talking to a wall here and that you will venture down there and learn your lessons the hard way. But maybe a detailed post will prevent others from following you ...



Don't take our word for it. Go down to your local boatyard some weekend and wander around talking to the people who are actually rebuilding old sailboats.


What you learn may surprise you.


Much of fixing up a 40-year-old sailboat is not sweat equity. It's writing checks to buy things. If your kitty is the proceeds from selling a Catalina 27, you have enough money to buy one decent mainsail and an OK jib for a 40-footer. Period.


That boat looks like a mess. My rule of thumb is that if the owner doesn't pick up the garbage and straighten things up regularly, the mechanics of the boat are also a mess.


Remember that the value of a hull, deck and mast on a 40-year-old sailboat is zero. You can find them all over for free. The value is in sails, electronics, cosmetics, interior appointments, appliances, a decent diesel, etc.


I had to laugh when one dock walker here said, hey, if all the mechanicals check out OK, go for it. He obviously has never crawled around inside a 40-year-old sailboat.


Remember this: most of the stuff on the boat IS 40 years old. Things are gonna break regularly, if they haven't already. None of it was built to last 40 years. And it's all expensive to replace. That's why many of us say that BOAT means break out another thousand.



We're talking about fuel tanks. Water tanks. The hose that carries the propane to the stove. Engine mounts. Muffler. Pumps. A 40-year-old Volvo is junk if its not freshwater-cooled. And it might be junk even if it is. People have been sweating on the upholstery for 40 years. You OK with that?



At least some of the wiring will be corroded, solid copper. The rest will be unfused, joined with wire caps and in a jumble. The hull-deck joint, hatches and ports will leak. How much rot is there in bulkheads and the cabin sole, let alone the deck? When were those rusty lifelines changed?



How old is that prop shaft? Does the pink discoloration on your bronze rudder shaft at the water line means that it has lost all of its zinc and turned into Jello? How come the rudder wiggles a little when the wheel is locked?


All of this is too familiar to people who have restored old sailboats.



Also, how will you supply power to the boat? A decent solar array is a several grand. You can't sweat your way into quality panels and a good MPPT controller. Or a decent set of batteries.



Even if you do manage to pull it off, you have the problem of owning a 40-foot sailboat. Big boats are not cheap. Docks and haulouts are expensive. The days of sailors living for free off the sea are long gone.



Good luck.

[Allied39]

I do not follow a single you tube .....tuber...or whatever they are called. But I sure as hell would love to see this move forward.

To be out of big bad america doing the 40 ft sailboat on a low budget in mexico of all places.....yeah, LOVE to watch that.

With all the positive energy , vibes and feelings I could send your way of course.....no naysayer here...steady the course, you got this easy.

No money though, not from me,not a dime.

GO FOR IT!!!! And please, please, I beg you, document it so all the sillly scared naysayers can see how it's done.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Sunkenanchor

Aluminum Bronze chain/ deck plates are available from McMaster-Carr for about $350 for all the main upper/ lower shrouds. 316L is far cheaper but I’m not a fan of crevice corrosion…

$5.90 dry storage

$16.50 Work area electricity and water supplied

Owner live aboard and no additional expense.

Hull to the water $260

No commute, no desire to come back to the US

Engine and vessel was said to be hulled out every year for maintenance (working on receipts) until his father couldn’t sail and it has remained on the hard since. Sails were tossed in cabin, I was told because the covers were bad and new ones were to be made. Materials cheap and I can sew..

I always forget forums are like this which is why I avoid them like the plague (not directed at you) and that I must be specific and should have just posted the mast step mount corrosion pic only anything else just seems to attract fly’s

Sunkenanchor, I responded earlier. Not trying to be a naysayer, just to put some realism into the picture.

But speaking of realism, what I recommend is for you to get on the ground in Mexico where the boat is, and spec out the situation. I'd say to talk to some of the local cruisers but you won't find many around this time of the year, too dang hot, most have closed up their boats and hightailed it north until November.

Me, I'm there, not that yard, and I've been here for 7 years since completing my circumnavigation. I do all my own work on my boat, and I know the ropes in my area. Some of what you are hearing is plain wrong.

For instance: bribery is not an issue, not at all. The boat yards are not thieves but if you leave you boat unattended there are theives around. The locals will not treat you badly just because you are a gringo, most of the people around boatyards and boats make their living off of gringo boat owners and they are usually pretty good folks.

Labor rates once you get away from the boat yard staff is low. Things like machine shop-welding, canvas work, fiberglass work, general TLC is very cheap. (quality varied, you have to supervise. But anything you can pay a Mexican to do will at a cheap labor rate.

Goods, including boat stuff, can be shipped from the US but shipping to Mexico is a drag. Stuff gets held up in customs and the shipping costs tend to be high. Stuff which is purchased in Mexico seems to be high as well (someone had to get it shipped in). BTW, material for new sail covers won't be cheap. Sunbrella is $37/yd. (there are substitute acrylic materials available, finding them is not easy).

All that being said, a boat project here is doable if you are resourceful and persistent and can work hard in a hot climate.

But I stand by my earlier comment, this boat you are considering is going to be a big and long project, not even accounting for the "Mexico" factor.

But get to Mexico and scope it out.

[JPA Cate]

Fred, what do you think about that mast step? It looks to me like a cheap and dirty repair failed. Mast steps are supposed to transmit the rig loads to the hull, and different designers have different plans for it. So, how does Sunkenanchor approach constructing something that will be safe to sail???? I'd have to hire an engineer or a naval architect!

Ann

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Fred, what do you think about that mast step? It looks to me like a cheap and dirty repair failed. Mast steps are supposed to transmit the rig loads to the hull, and different designers have different plans for it. So, how does Sunkenanchor approach constructing something that will be safe to sail???? I'd have to hire an engineer or a naval architect!

Ann

The mast step has to transfer load, in this case, to the keel area I'd think. It's compression load. The approach seems a bit weird but it should work if constructed of good materials and not rusty or corroded (which it is). If it was me I'd pull the mast and clear out everything down there and see what's going on. And probably build a new one.

The big question is what is it sitting on? And how are the lowest supports attached or bedded to the bottom of the boat.

I wouldn't hire an engineer, not where he's at. Just build it strong and in a way that makes sense (a plain box would be fine, in my opinion).

[Cheechako]

Without a running diesel: NO.
Otherwise, boy it's difficult to say what is there. The mast step is not a huge deal, at least that type of thing you can fix or jury rig in Mexico. Even a bag of wet cement hardened in place could do it for now.
Other things that require a bunch of parts imported can end up a nightmare to get it done. Decades ago it took me a year and $30K to rebuild a 30 footer that looked kinda like that and it was a 1/4 mile from my house in the US.
Are you prepared to live in Mexico for a year+?
Tanks?

[Fore and Aft]

Wingssail that makes sense, I would also see if I could check out a few mast steps on other 40 footers in the yard. Just to get some ideas and see what works.
Sunkenanchor I surveyed a very neglected 1970s 40' ketch that had been built by one of the better builders of that era. Funny enough it had a 4 cylinder Volvo as well and that was one of the big selling points as the Volvo had been fully rebuilt and only had 150 hours on it. Unfortunately that motor hadn't run in years, it ran well for a short trip and now has developed some major issues that requires it to be lifted out and repaired in workshop. Seacocks are another issue that will probably need replacing. You might want to check the stern gland as well.
I am interested to hear what the second hand boat parts market is like in Mexico? Here in Australia I am always sourcing new never used boat parts cheaply online.
Cheers

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The big question is what is it sitting on? And how are the lowest supports attached or bedded to the bottom of the boat.

This is my main concern. I suspect its attached like motor mounts and just glassed over steel that can be ground out with an angle grinder and new more load bearing attach attachment glassed in. Silicon bronze, 316L or G10 would be a better choice than the high carbon steel. A prior H40 owner said his step was composite and looked different and this may have been a kit boat that and the person or shop had fabricated the steel step. The step itself to me does not look professionally fabricated and is the least of my concern.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

...I am interested to hear what the second hand boat parts market is like in Mexico? ...

There is no second hand boat parts market in Mexico other than periodic swap meets and occasional "buy, swap, or sell" posts on facebook. The market, surprisingly, is too small.

[Sunkenanchor]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Without a running diesel: NO.
Otherwise, boy it's difficult to say what is there. The mast step is not a huge deal, at least that type of thing you can fix or jury rig in Mexico. Even a bag of wet cement hardened in place could do it for now.
Other things that require a bunch of parts imported can end up a nightmare to get it done. Decades ago it took me a year and $30K to rebuild a 30 footer that looked kinda like that and it was a 1/4 mile from my house in the US.
Are you prepared to live in Mexico for a year+?
Tanks?

Quikrete lol good idea just glass in some sonotubes. IF that’s the worst of it 'the step mount' and ordering a spool of dyneema for standing rigging and a spool or two of budget line for sheets some aluminum bronze bar stock for chain/ deck plates. I don’t see anywhere near $30k or a years’ worth of work.

That is IF there is no bigger issues such as engine, tanks and shafts, etc. Everything that isn’t necessary for it to be safely sailed will be repaired or redone when it’s underway. I actually enjoy projects just single tasks that last months on end.

Most of my life has been spent in a shop or garage whether I was paid or not. Some people play golf and watch sports, I design fix and invent. I mean how many people redesign there Norelco so it has LiFePO4 replaceable CR123A’s with charging/ protection module that has micro USB

[Don C L]

I just don't think it is a good idea to buy any boat sight unseen. I know you are getting pictures, but until you get down there and look at it yourself, talk to the locals (get someone to translate if you have to) about costs of labor and supplies, and how to get things shipped in, it will be really hard to judge this. Volvos are very expensive to fix and find parts for. The mast step is one of those things that has to be done right. The forces there can approach the displacement of the boat. I will take you at your word you can do the work, but I'd estimate what you think it will cost and then triple it. At least in my own experience, that usually works out about right. You may see naysayers as nattering nabobs of negativity, but they may have experienced big losses on a boat and they are just trying to help you not go through the same pain.
Oh and sailing up to San Diego from Mexico will require a boat in good shape.

[jimbunyard]

Well the engine, a Volvo MD30 looks good, though it's what's on the inside that counts.

Unfortunately, this is a Volvo original (not a repackage), and a good one, but if you need parts for it almost all of them have to come from Volvo. Read, 'mucho dinero'.

Otherwise doesn't look too bad to me but I'd never do anything without seeing it in person. Including taking possession if it were offered for free.

I'd be more curious about 'never coming back to the US'. Are there rules about that?

[Fore and Aft]

Sunkenanchor what worries me is usually when there are really good deals in boatyards they are never advertised as word of mouth sells them like hot cakes. Instead your Hughes is listed on Craigslist and after 6 days its still being advertised.
I think if the owner gave or nearly gave you the boat after you have checked her out then you could afford to replace the diesel engine with a used one if the Volvo dies.
Cheers
https://bajasur.craigslist.org/boa/d...?lang=en&cc=us

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Don C L

You may see naysayers as nattering nabobs of negativity, but they may have experienced big losses on a boat and they are just trying to help you not go through the same pain.

I have a hard time believing that everyone in this dog pile has experienced "big losses". I'd venture to say that at least 3/4 of them have never attempted a project like this, or any project for that matter.

Personally, had I listened to the internet, I'd have never owned the 2001 Chaparral 186 that had water in the oil, but served us well with no further issues. And I'd have never owned the 1969 Chris Craft Commander 31 that had an entire laundry list of things that needed repair or updating, but allowed us to start our local cruising career. And I'd probably have never owned the Hunter 27 that introduced me to sailing. And I surely wouldn't own the boat we live on now.

Sometimes those of us who look at a project can see it's potential, and not just it's pit falls.