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12-05-2013, 06:31
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 12,879
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell
I won't say a particular vessel, but based on my experience offshore in various craft I have owned here is what I would want: monohull, 37 feet, fairly heavy, long fin keel with skeg-hung rudder on stern, moderate beam,
...
As much as possible I would reduce or eliminate through hulls: transom hung rudder, composting toilet, shared drain for galley and head, transom scuppers for cockpit, etc. All systems would be simple and robust, with weights centralized and low down whenever possible.
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Thanks Kettlewell, I can check off more than 1/2 the items on your list with my Rafiki-37. Boy, do I feel tough now  .
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12-05-2013, 06:42
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#17
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cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell
I agree--what I meant were tubular hand rails mounted on deck, inboard, to run your safety harness on and to use as handholds.
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Sorry, I thought you said instead of lifelines.
I have double lifelines, and they're netted, because my boat is NOT a blue water boat but I could still get caught in a nasty "storm" -- I use quotes for those who prefer that term used in a precise meteorlogical way. To me, a storm, is weather bad enough to make it very challenging to keep the boat and crew safe and uninjured.
But I still want my jackline really close to center -- too close to be used as handholds.
In other words, I'm arguing for both.
I sure would like to see a description of that fellow Trevor's boat and compare it to your description.
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12-05-2013, 06:50
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#18
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Armchair Bucketeer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Mine.
As she is tied to a dock.
and I live in a house.
Location is always key!
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12-05-2013, 06:51
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: O'Day 28
Posts: 3,916
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Olson
I know that there are many definitions of "blue water" and I also know that the sailor is the weakest link (and I'm guessing this has likely been discussed), but what single sailing vessel (make/size) would you personally want to be in under the worst conditions? (And no saying aircraft carrier).
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With no parameters, bigger has to be better. Long and low and lean.
Next question?
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12-05-2013, 07:49
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#20
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 7,863
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
This has been discussed here recently and would seem to be a good base to build on.
Wylo 35.5 background
Wylo 35.5
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12-05-2013, 09:56
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: O'Day 28
Posts: 3,916
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Agreed. Great little boat. And there are many of that ilk. Regardless of safety in size, I'd want to stay around 30 ft for physical reasons. I'd think unsinkability would be top o' my list. And fun to sail. A Newick Val 31 would be right at the top. For me. Fast, fun and room for one. Bluewater creds. Woo hoo!
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12-05-2013, 10:37
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#23
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Another good point which needs to be included in this discussion, is the ability of the ideal blue water boat to get out of the way of the advancing danger/storm. I don't really understand why so many stick to the old-school love affair with heavy, full keel, slow models which many times leave them to suffer riding out the worst of a storm, while other faster vessels were able to reach safety by either getting out of the way or reaching a safe harbor in time.
I'd say look at some of the major manufacturers like Halberg Rassey, Amel, Moody, Oyster, Tayana, Discovery and quite a few others. I'd even include some of the larger Beneteaus like the 58 or the Jeanneau 54ds because they're proven to be fast enough to get out of the way.
It's a stretch to say that a vessel that's build like a brick and sails about as good as a school bus is a good blue water boat.
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12-05-2013, 10:42
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#24
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cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
Another good point which needs to be included in this discussion, is the ability of the ideal blue water boat to get out of the way of the advancing danger/storm. I don't really understand why so many stick to the old-school love affair with heavy, full keel, slow models which many times leave them to suffer riding out the worst of a storm, while other faster vessels were able to reach safety by either getting out of the way or reaching a safe harbor in time.
I'd say look at some of the major manufacturers like Halberg Rassey, Amel, Moody, Oyster, Tayana, Discovery and quite a few others. I'd even include some of the larger Beneteaus like the 58 or the Jeanneau 54ds because they're proven to be fast enough to get out of the way.
It's a stretch to say that a vessel that's build like a brick and sails about as good as a school bus is a good blue water boat.
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Well, I'm not sure about that. Where do you get to safety, and what if you get caught by the boat in shallow water, don't make it in time.
Around here, unless I were very sure I could outrun the boat, I would prepare to ride it out one way or another. A lot of the channels we have to safety are themselves shallow in places, particularly around the openings.
I would much rather be in deeper water. And, we're talking about blue water here -- where are they, 100 miles from shore? Can they really outrun whatever is headed their way? (Hopefully they checked the weather and aren't just sailing into a big system they could have missed by waiting a day or two).
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12-05-2013, 10:52
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,945
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Heavy doesn't necessarily mean slow, and sailing out of the way of a storm is highly overrated--look at how often the weather gurus get it all wrong and your immediate local weather doesn't even show up on the weather map half the time. Look at all the instances we read about where some very large boats have been caught offshore in bad stuff. The worst gale I have been in offshore was not predicted and didn't show on any weather source I could find after the fact. In any case, many of us can't afford or don't want a 50+ foot boat for other reasons. I prefer a boat that can be handled more easily by one or two crew.
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12-05-2013, 10:57
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#26
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cruiser
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kettlewell
Heavy doesn't necessarily mean slow, and sailing out of the way of a storm is highly overrated--look at how often the weather gurus get it all wrong and your immediate local weather doesn't even show up on the weather map half the time. Look at all the instances we read about where some very large boats have been caught offshore in bad stuff. The worst gale I have been in offshore was not predicted and didn't show on any weather source I could find after the fact. In any case, many of us can't afford or don't want a 50+ foot boat for other reasons. I prefer a boat that can be handled more easily by one or two crew.
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I wasn't IN it, thank goodness, but the worst storm I've seen was like that too. If you'd tried to outrace that storm and not made it you would have taken quite a beating in the surf.
I guess it depends on where you sail. Some places, the weather is more predictable, but they just can't say here where the two competing east and west winds are going to meet and kick up some stuff. Maybe you could catch the edge and it could push you away, but I would only try that here if it were going to push me away from the coast.
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12-05-2013, 11:12
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 12,879
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac
Another good point which needs to be included in this discussion, is the ability of the ideal blue water boat to get out of the way of the advancing danger/storm. I don't really understand why so many stick to the old-school love affair with heavy, full keel, slow models which many times leave them to suffer riding out the worst of a storm, while other faster vessels were able to reach safety by either getting out of the way or reaching a safe harbor in time.
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I've heard this oft-repeated here, but my "heavy, full keel" boat is no slower than any other displacement sailboat with the same waterline: 32'. (36.75' LOA). Unless you're considering surfing capabilities, hull speed for displacement boats is dependent on the same basic hydraulic physics, whether they be "old-school" or new-school.
Now, if you're saying some boats are under-powered, then that's a different issue. Some old boat designs are underpowered. Some new boat designs are underpowered. I've never seen any stats or facts regarding the proportion of underpowered boat designs in any given build era. Perhaps you have such info?
Seems to me what you're really saying is: get a big boat. Bigger is faster. Has very little to do with old vs new.
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12-05-2013, 11:26
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Boat: Pearson Triton
Posts: 69
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Matt Rutherford solos the Americas non-stop, this guy ( SY Rebellion - Home) goes around west about ... both "modified" Albin Vegas. Lots of Alberg 30's and Tritons making epic voyages too ... after being prepared for the task. Mostly, keep the water out and the rig/rudder in place! Some will argue, but it seems size has more to do with crew comfort than seaworthiness.
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12-05-2013, 11:38
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#29
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Do… or do not

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 13,306
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Re: Worst Conditions Blue Water Boat
Guys, epic boats that did epic voyages, or roughing it like our ancestors did is not what this thread is about. Ideally, during this worst conditions storm, the crew would be drinking cocktails in comfort because the boat takes care of it all
Skeg-hung rudders? really?!!
Albin Vega? Alberg 30? really?!!
Anything below 50' will have a way tougher time than anything above that. I guess everybody would agree to that, yet the old oak ribbed 30 footers all get the usual blue water label again
I'd rather be in a 2005 Beneteau 50 than any of those.
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12-05-2013, 11:41
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Lord Nelson 35
Posts: 8
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My Lord Nelson 35 handles a wide variety of adverse conditions in relative comfort.
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