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03-01-2019, 08:22
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sequim, WA
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 MkII
Posts: 284
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepondancin
My only new boat, a 1984, I think, Catalina 34 had a winged keel. It sailed very much like the standard keel version. I liked the shoal draft for obvious reason. The problem I experienced was anchored in calm conditions, with light wind against current, tide change, the rope rhode wrapped around the keel several times, and was a bit of a challenge to get it untangled. I miss the days you could buy a new boat for $60k.
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Hadn't thought about that. Since we will be on anchor much of the time we will be gunkholing the South Pacific, I will definitely keep watch on the rode wrapping around it.
As to getting it stuck in mud, I don't see me letting that happen, but let's just say, ...I have been warned.
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03-01-2019, 10:03
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 837
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Re: Winged Keels
I had a rope rode. I imagine you will have chain. I doubt it would be an issue. The rudder of the Catalina was 4” deeper than the keel. That wasn’t the greatest setup.
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03-01-2019, 10:07
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#48
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Boat: 73´ULDB custom ketch
Posts: 1,069
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepondancin
I had a rope rode. I imagine you will have chain. I doubt it would be an issue. The rudder of the Catalina was 4” deeper than the keel. That wasn’t the greatest setup.
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Why did they make the keel so short if the rudder was deeper? Seems like a disastrous setup.
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03-01-2019, 10:23
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#49
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sequim, WA
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 MkII
Posts: 284
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepondancin
I had a rope rode. I imagine you will have chain. I doubt it would be an issue. The rudder of the Catalina was 4” deeper than the keel. That wasn’t the greatest setup.
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There are both on the boat, though I tendency is to use the all chain. I have, however, set 2 anchors on our IT40 when I lived on her for 11 months anchored in Oak Bay, BC. They regularly wrapped around each other. They held through a big storm, while other boats dragged right past me. They one on the left snapped its rode.
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03-01-2019, 10:28
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sequim, WA
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 MkII
Posts: 284
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinR
Why did they make the keel so short if the rudder was deeper? Seems like a disastrous setup.
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On the boat we are considering, the keel is about 6" deeper than the rudder. Since I will need to re-core the rudder (full of water), I'm considering making it slightly shorter. Haven't bought it yet, but it is a pondering.
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03-01-2019, 17:58
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#51
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 5 Mile River
Boat: Bristol 41.1 Keep on Dancin'
Posts: 837
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinR
Why did they make the keel so short if the rudder was deeper? Seems like a disastrous setup.
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Didn't realize it until after the first year when it was hauled. No answer, just the nature of the boat business; always wonder why boat builders do what they do.
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03-01-2019, 18:34
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#52
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sequim, WA
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 MkII
Posts: 284
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Re: Winged Keels
Oops. You were asking Dancin'.
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04-01-2019, 08:15
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Now based on Florida's West coast
Boat: Pearson 34-II
Posts: 2,541
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Re: Winged Keels
We have sailed a winged keel on our Pearson 34-2 since 1995. It is the perfect "Island Boat" and has allowed us access to areas of natural beauty inaccessible to deeper draft vessels, provided protection in shallow water bays barred to deeper fin keels and allowed us to easily beach the boat for bottom cleaning in remote areas. In beam seas 6' and above, we do have more leeway than a fin keel but nothing that compromises our DR track significantly but running downwind in any seas, it tracks well and we consistently sail well beyond our theoretical hull speed with any winds over 12-14 knots(8.5-knot hull speed). Any boat is a compromise, but for those who wish to sail in shoal waters, it is the only keel I would consider. Best, Rognvald
__________________
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music."
Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathrustra
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07-01-2019, 07:18
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Holland, Michigan
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 193
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Re: Winged Keels
I sail on the bay and always have the mud problem.
It's annoying because the depth keeps changing, and what's safe one day isn't the next. It seems that my keel is just about 6" too long.
So I end up in the muck at least four times a season.
I thought about just whacking 6" off my keel, taking the excess, cutting it in half and mounting it at the bottom of what would be left and shaping a torpedo shape with a little epoxy and calling it a day. I wonder how much tenderness that would generate???
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07-01-2019, 07:32
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#55
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lake Erie, Ohio
Boat: Bavaria Vision 46
Posts: 114
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Re: Winged Keels
Wings on my shoal draft reduced draft 1.5 feet to 5.5 ft allowing for better marina access in the Great Lakes. I believe it makes her feel like a larger, stiffer boat as it cuts through instead of riding up and crashing down. Haven’t sailed the same boat with the standard keel so I don’t know the performance differences.
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07-01-2019, 07:40
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#56
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Sequim, WA
Boat: 1982 Irwin 46 MkII
Posts: 284
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Re: Winged Keels
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlheintz
I sail on the bay and always have the mud problem.
It's annoying because the depth keeps changing, and what's safe one day isn't the next. It seems that my keel is just about 6" too long.
So I end up in the muck at least four times a season.
I thought about just whacking 6" off my keel, taking the excess, cutting it in half and mounting it at the bottom of what would be left and shaping a torpedo shape with a little epoxy and calling it a day. I wonder how much tenderness that would generate???
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Leverage would dictate that as you shorten the depth, the more weight you would need to add.
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07-01-2019, 07:59
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western MA & Maine
Boat: 1997 Sabre 362
Posts: 67
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Re: Winged Keels
I have a "winged" keel on my 1997 Sabre 362 and I have a pretty severe weather helm that my friend, on his 1996 Sabre 362 fin keel, does not have. It is apparently the only difference between the two boats. A rigger said this would make some difference. I'm not sure that it's all the difference.
I was told by an excellent surveyor that I probably would not notice a difference between the shoal draft & the fin.
I would love to get a fin keel for my dear.
If you don't need the shoal draft, I would stick with a fin. On the east coast anyway, shoal draft is a lot more common than fin, on relatively new boats.
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07-01-2019, 08:07
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Currently.. Portugal
Boat: Farr 50 Pilothouse
Posts: 5
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Re: Winged Keels
Hi CptCrunchiie
When I was looking for my yacht I was definitely of the ‘no wing keel’ mindset.
So obviously here’s what I bought... 🙄😂
However, what three years on, I now don’t even think about the winged keel. I haven’t seen a fin keeled version the same as mine so can’t comment about any performance differences, but I have no complaints about the sailing ability of mine at any point of sail. I also use all chain on my anchor and have never had any problems with rode around the wing, but have noted the other poster who has when using rope.. which I have on the kedge so I’ll be careful if I need to deploy that.
Also to answer your concerns about a winged keel in heavy weather, I came down the Portuguese coast where I had four days and nights of constant F8 gusting well into 9, and last season we encountered a F10 for about 5 hours.
I can’t say the keel had any adverse effect on the sea keeping abilities of the boat, she handled it remarkably well.. better than my wife and I 🤢
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07-01-2019, 08:30
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#59
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3
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Re: Winged Keels
I had a Hanse 301 with wing keel for a few years. Cruising in the Stockholm archipelago mostly. In flat water it went upwind pretty swiftly and i still could get into shallow bays. I actually could stand in the water with the boat on a leach, directing it between the rocks. In more grumpy water though, and in stronger winds it was just to weak. The keel weight didn't produce any torque so close to the (floating) center of gravity, the wing didn't create any downward draught in low speeds, the boat just stomped and got nowhere.
Once during a short stop for eating, anchoring in a bay, the anchor drifted and we sort of slipped on to a flat stone shelf. Such stone surfaces are abundant in the north since the ice age due to the ice grinding the rocks. I tried for a few hours to rock the boat, with the anchor on a winch, but it was simply no getting off the shelf and I had to call for help.
Another drawback with the shallow keel was that the rudder correspondingly was so, which meant that the boat had a tendency for broaching going downwind, even without the spinnaker hoisted.
I wouldn't buy a boat with a wing keel again.
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07-01-2019, 09:27
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#60
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Newport Beach, California
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 35
Posts: 236
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Re: Winged Keels
Best decision ever. Changed out a swing keel for a wing keel on a Catalina 25. Increased boat speed by a knot and lets you enter shallow water anchorages. The Catalina caught the edge of a hurricane in the Sea of Cortez and was very stable with a para-anchor deployed.
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