Windward Island Hell: It’s no longer a safe place to sail.

[gunkylump]

Great conversation, can always learn something from differing views and experiences.

My wife and I have been sailing the Eastern Caribbean for 4 years now on our Stevens 47. We adopted the attitude on not being the low hanging fruit at the beginning of our travels. We have solar powered motion sensor lights, we keep the deck and cockpit clear and locked, the dinghy, motor and gas tank is locked everywhere we go. We treat the locals with respect and a smile, and are always wary of our surroundings. Is this running scared? Nope, not in our opinion. No different than being in a city in our minds.


There are areas where we won't go....St. Vincent for example. No thanks, too much history we don't care for there, although we would love to be able to explore there. We have spent time in Rodney Bay, Marigot Bay, and have experienced no bad issues. We were boarded in Dominica, in the dark, and the fellow was scared off by my wife yelling at him as he struggled with the dinghy. We lock ourselves in at night....it is just prudent to do so.

There are incidents reported on Noonsite and other sites, and we do follow them to keep abreast of the changing times. Travelling with another boat, anchoring in the vicinity of others helps in our opinion. We have never had an issue with boat boys being a nuisance.

We hope that trait continues, and our sailing experiences continue to be pleasant and memory making. Keep you boat from being the low hanging fruit and it deters those who would make life difficult. So far, for us, the opportunistic thieves have left us alone. There are thugs, murderers and thieves everywhere one travels. I don't think this should deter anyone from sailing in the Eastern Caribbean, but, that being said, knowing where the trouble spots are or have been, is very valuable when trip and anchorage planning.


We are aware, and we know a lot of the cruisers in the Eastern Caribbean....most feel the same as we do. It is a truly lovely and unique experience and very enjoyable to sail this area of the world. If any of you are on Facebook, join some of the groups such as Eastern Caribbean Cruisers, Grenada Cruisers, Antigua Cruisers, etc. and read up on what the cruisers in those areas have to say.


When we return to our boat in Grenada after hurricane season, we can't wait to enjoy all that the Eastern Caribbean has to offer.

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by DMCantor

This is complete crap. We have cruised the windwards for 10 years, and have always had a very positive experience. If you are having problems with "boat boys," maybe its because you don't see them as "marine professionals." These guys work very hard, and the vast majority will give you exactly as much respect as you give them.

We have established very warm relationships with many, many of these folks. It just take a little empathy.

Good point - many of these guys really are marine professionals; and it seems overly patronizing and demeaning (never mind racist stereotypes that the term may bring to mind) to refer to hard-working businessmen (and women) as boat (or any other kind of) "boys". I realize this is a familiar term that's been in use for many decades - but isn't it time we moved into the 21st century?

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by scallowayuk

hi, there are some places like that, soufriere is one of them, which i suspect is where you were. the boat boys are agressive ,and not much better ashore, st vincent can be the same. but dont judge all the indies by that, ive done 4 trips to the caribbean and have been mugged a few times, but overall i think london is more dangerous

I've done dozens of trips to the Caribbean, including some of the supposedly scarier parts of cities ranging from Havana to Kingston to the capitals of Antigua, Montserrat, St. Kitts, Nevis, Guadeloupe, Dominica, Martinique, St. Lucia, St. Vincent, Grenada and Trinidad - and never been mugged.....even wandering the streets drunk at 3am. And I never carry a weapon more significant than the multitool that's always on my belt and some modest street smarts gained in Harlem / NYC in the 80's....

We've had more valuables stolen from our houses in nice parts of Denver!

[wcapital]

See answers below....

Originally Posted by coastalexplorer

Having never visited any of the places mentioned, and after reading these responses. I am left wondering IF those who wrote "being nice to 'boat boys' means that they paid their asking price?
- Sometimes yes, sometimes no - but if services seem useful (as they often have been), usually negotiated

Do these local's victimize those who decline to pay?
- In my experience, no.


I am also curious to know do Charter vessels have the companies advertising
brazened on them like rental RV's traveling the road of north America?
- Many (most) do - and they are usually easily identifiable (though the experience and knowledge of the charterers certainly vary greatly!)

If not how do they know which yachts are charters?

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by amiller

Oh, I found the pirate article. It's actually about Venezuela, so not really relevant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.0399d060f138

Maybe the OP wants to scare people away? Mayreau is getting crowded with happy charter boats lately....

Mayreau....getting crowded....only LATELY???

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by SouthernPride

Bring
1. A spear gun for fishing. Pack separately.
2. A crossbow "for fishing". Never had a problem bringing into another country.
3. A flare gun is on every boat.
4. A cheap machete. "For cutting wood"

I have used the crossbow to warn and have put one into their boats
As a warning. No problem putting one into these animals.

These guys are cowards. If you push back they will run and look for someone else.

Eventually they are going to kill innocent sailors. Don't wish later, after someone you know gets hurts or worse, you defended yourself.

On our boat for 8 years in the Windwards:

We had a spear gun or two - speared a fish or two and a few lobsters...mostly it collected rust.

No crossbow, but had a pair of tasers. No problem bringing them there; never even test fired them....

Had various flares & guns....never fired....shells got way past expiration date

Got a big machete...used it for a few coconuts, big lobsters and a soursop once....mostly it got rusty.


Did lots of explorations - went to cricket matches, bars, concerts...climbed mountains and went to waterfalls - with local guides and marine professionals. Some will always be friends, and many were most helpful and enjoyable!

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by wcapital

Good point - many of these guys really are marine professionals; and it seems overly patronizing and demeaning (never mind racist stereotypes that the term may bring to mind) to refer to hard-working businessmen (and women) as boat (or any other kind of) "boys". I realize this is a familiar term that's been in use for many decades - but isn't it time we moved into the 21st century?

Thanks for the social justice warrior/ political correctness/ white guilt rubbish. Maybe you could convince them that they are victims and are entitled to reparations. Oh the horror of being called a "boat boy".

[moseriw]

Fluer de Mer! PLEASE THIS IS IMPORTANT you should post this at noonsite.com too as this is the bluewater cruisers source for country informstions.

Thank you.

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Thanks for the social justice warrior/ political correctness/ white guilt rubbish. Maybe you could convince them that they are victims and are entitled to reparations. Oh the horror of being called a "boat boy".

Just a suggestion some may wish to think about....

I'm no PC / social warrior, but do know many of those guys are hard working grown men who don't appreciate the "boat boy" moniker. There's a reason that in Dominica, the organization they formed to provide professional training, marine services, security and generally maintain standards for services to the yachting community is called "PAYS" (Portsmouth Association of Yacht Services) - not "PABB".

And for some of African descent, being called (anything) "boy" is barely better than using the n-word. Perhaps YOU should think of why your "white guilt rubbish" and, in some places, black antipathy towards white trash, exists. But feel free to fly the Stars & Bars from your backstay if you wish - I'm all for free speech....

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by wcapital

Just a suggestion some may wish to think about....

I'm no PC / social warrior, but do know many of those guys are hard working grown men who don't appreciate the "boat boy" moniker. There's a reason that in Dominica, the organization they formed to provide professional training, marine services, security and generally maintain standards for services to the yachting community is called "PAYS" (Portsmouth Association of Yacht Services) - not "PABB".

And for some of African descent, being called (anything) "boy" is barely better than using the n-word. Perhaps YOU should think of why your "white guilt rubbish" and, in some places, black antipathy towards white trash, exists. But feel free to fly the Stars & Bars from your backstay if you wish - I'm all for free speech....

So dopey its funny. The term "boat boy" is from within their own culture. They will change it if they want to. Sell your leftist initiative somewhere else. The term "Boy" is also sexist depending on how they "feel" that day seeing how there is now 30 different genders. What gender are you feeling today? Maybe you could start a candle light vigil and protest for a name change such as "boat attendant". Self loathers are so much fun to mock.

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by tarian

Clearly your blood pressure is to high, now I was merely stating facts from sources of difference of opinions noonsite a cruiser forum and a national newspaper which has editorial values , I do not believe or disbelieve either just making the point that gossip and hear say especially through a small community like the cruising community things can be exaggerated from the truth either in a positive or negative way.
What I wrote is pretty clear take your time read it slowly you'll get it
I was making the point about weapons as a pirate comparison , but how do you know they did not have a switch blade on them I don't no either , but again tell that to the poor German gentlman who got shot by an intruder in his boat

Martin Griff was murdered by two masked gunmen when they boarded a yacht in the bay of Wallilabou in St. Vincent, Caribbean.
Read more at https://www.ybw.com/news-from-yachti...lboTQMIZtml.99

LOL.. My blood pressure is too high.. I actually snorted out my nose. Fella, I have been cruising for 3 years, my blood pressure is anything but high... but I want to make sure people have as much information as possible to form thier opinion.

As to taking my time and reading what you wrote.. I barely understand what you wrote after reading it 5 times. Punctuation, spelling and proper grammer is important. I'm sorry if English is not your first language, but damn what you wrote here is barely legible, but I have been trying.

However I won't make light of the person who was shot in 2016. That was a terrible tragety that shook the community down here (yes I was here). However, as tragic as it was, it was a single incident in a very big area. Hell in the month that took place there were 4 murders in the city I used to all home. However, I feel for his family and hope that they get some closure to that terrible tragedy.

Now.. At this point, I have realized you have nothing useful or based on facts to add to this converstation. I have given my opinion based on my experience over the last 3 years of living and cruising here. That is all I can do. I have no tie here, or anything to be gained by exagerating or lying. People are free to beleive what they want!

As an aside.. We spent a fabulous day at the Pretty Mass carnival parade with our 3 kids. No one was robbed and all our kids had a great time! I really hope other cruising families are not scared off from such a fantastic experience.

[doublewide]

Our experience has been different.
We always avoid the Pitons and Vieux Fort and always skip St Vincent. Boat boys can be too importunate, at times annoying, but last winter they seemed different. It was like they had all gone to charm school. They were respectful and businesslike, never demanding or threatening. I don't know what caused the change, but it was nice.

[wcapital]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

So dopey its funny. The term "boat boy" is from within their own culture. They will change it if they want to. Sell your leftist initiative somewhere else. The term "Boy" is also sexist depending on how they "feel" that day seeing how there is now 30 different genders. What gender are you feeling today? Maybe you could start a candle light vigil and protest for a name change such as "boat attendant". Self loathers are so much fun to mock.

Fish:

Gee, if that term is so embraced, you still didn't answer why it's PAYS and not PABB.... But anyhow, I'm glad you're so brilliant you know me better than myself, and what everyone else in the world thinks about themselves, their identities and their cultures.

I guess if you think a regular libertarian voter is a leftist, and that I loathe myself - because I threw out a suggestion to be considered (that you felt a need to ridicule), please enjoy the view from whatever perch you sit upon.

To the rest of the forum - my apologies for apparently setting off this descent into ad-hominem digressions. This will be my last contribution to it.

[Dulcesuenos]

Everyone experiences things differently. Heck my trip is often different then the admirals and were on the same boat. In the last 6 or 7 weeks we made the trip from Bequia to Bonnaire, we felt we were far enough from Venezuela to be ok. We ran Ais and radar over the 3 nights, we were amazed at how many fishing boats, and fishing floats, nets, long lines etc we saw. Some had ais beacons some did not. We saw several. Some came near us some did not. Did the thought cross our mind , "Is this a pirate?" Sure it did, but you either decide to live life, or you can hide from it. Some people get paranoid at a stoplight in the US that you might get car jacked. In some cities you can get shot at or threatened for honking or accidentally cutting someone off on the hwy. Those events happen everyday but you still get In your car and go or you become a hermit and live off amazon and uber eats,,,

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by wcapital

Fish:

Gee, if that term is so embraced, you still didn't answer why it's PAYS and not PABB.... But anyhow, I'm glad you're so brilliant you know me better than myself, and what everyone else in the world thinks about themselves, their identities and their cultures.

I guess if you think a regular libertarian voter is a leftist, and that I loathe myself - because I threw out a suggestion to be considered (that you felt a need to ridicule), please enjoy the view from whatever perch you sit upon.

To the rest of the forum - my apologies for apparently setting off this descent into ad-hominem digressions. This will be my last contribution to it.

So let me get this straight, a nondescript, non-binary,non-gender person comes around to your boat trying to sell produce and fish, offer security services, sets anchors and washes boats should now be referred as "PAYS" instead of "boat boy". Are they selling those fish to ABYC standards. Still mocking you. Do they still have "cabin boys" or "boy friends" (oh the horror). I think you just lowered the bar for anyone who calls themselves a boat technician. I ridicule you because you feel the need to enter into somebody else's culture and try to defend it against a straw-man. Do you think they are not capable or intelligent enough to defend it themselves? I can smell that covert racism a mile away. Try selling your wares over at the Huffington Post. It might be better received there.