Why don't you race - honest?

[JPA Cate]

We bought a boat for rest & relaxation - competing isn't relaxing!
Racers yell at novices, no thanks
Racing is expensive
Finding/keeping crew is like 'herding cats'
Don't know all the rules - they're way too complicated
Yacht club culture is too elitist
Don't know much about sail racing - and don't know where to find out. No one's ever reached out to us.
Why risk a collision with an aggressive racer?
Racing organization is a lot more work
Racers drink too much



Hi, Interloper,

I suspect your club doesn't have an active program for bringing along new sailors. You need a women and sailing sort of class, some of them will be competitive, and become good crew. Some women don't like to make contact via the yacht club bar. Also, you need a program for kids, so that married couples with children can do that sailing oriented thing as a family. Teachers should not be shouters. It's easy to learn the rules as you go along. The deal that might work is a race crew training program for skippers and crews. That way you get good coverage for kids, start integrating women more, and get the whole deal going.

* Note to Mike O'Reilly: I found racing fun. I enjoyed working as part of the team, and having teammates. It structured leisure time in the out of doors when my ex had the kids. To me, it was a pleasant social activity that, as crew, was utterly inexpensive, just my food and fuel..and I was going to eat, anyway, plus it was only 20 mi.

We left sailing to go cruising. Everything you do to the boat to make it cruise-worthy slows it down. Also, it was a lot of effort to train crew, to get them to come out for practices--and then they move away! Furthermore, the nature of the competition changed, so it became the guys with the most ready cash who won. It was no longer friendly, spirited competition among sailors.

"Racers drink too much." Some people drink too much, whether racer or non-racer. But you are in charge, you are not required to. You can switch to water, or sodas or tea or coffee if you don't want alcohol. I did have one recovering alcoholic acquaintance who would not become race crew because they thought it would be too much temptation, and they wanted to "stay sober," so I think the perception of racers being heavy drinkers is a problem for some, and rightly so. I have helped out at a club, by driving the dinghy/shore boat that picks up the racers after the race and takes them to the YC for the dinner. I have also refused to do the take-them-back-shift because I didn't want to be responsible for a boat full of drunk men. I think it is a complex issue, that should be discussed openly among the club membership. It's a bit hard, because the club makes money off the alcohol it sells, and guys feel they are supporting the club by buying it there.

Good luck with it, Interloper.

Ann

[Pelagic]

It attracts an inordinate number of lawyers whose good 'seaman and sportsman' ship.......
.... is totally eclipsed by their egos.

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Interloper

[*]Racers drink too much

More than cruisers? Really?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Interloper

Maybe it was rhetorical question? I like cruising too, but I enjoy racing because:

• I didn't realize how much I didn't know about sail trim and optimizing boat performance until I started racing. That is not to say it's the only way to learn, but I daysailed & cruised for almost 10 years before I started racing, and I was very surprised at how thin my boat performance skills were. Before racing I learned some very valuable skills, but missed others.
• 20 years ago when I started racing, I loved competing at anything and everything, though that attraction has faded considerably - it wouldn't be an attraction to me today.
• The camaraderie, and the crew teamwork aspect is great fun when everything is working well. And it can be great when the chips are down too.

My question wasn’t really rhetorical Interloper. I just think it would be more useful for you and your group to come at it from the positive side. Instead of trying to fix the negatives (perceived or real) I would focus on the positives. And I think your answers could act as at least a partial guide for your team. From my perspective as an older (50) cruiser:

#1. Racing is a great way to learn how to be a better sailor. I believe this, but as a cruiser, I don’t really care. I want to be a good sailor, but that’s not the reason I own a cruising sailboat.

#2. Competition; I think you nailed it. It’s more of a young person’s game. Not saying us old(er) farts aren't competitive. I too start tweaking the sails when we pull abreast of a fellow cruiser. But it’s not a driving force for me. I’d also bet it is more of a young male thing.

#3. Teamwork… yeck! Sounds like the agenda for a corporate retreat. Most people cruise to get away from work. Besides, I can get all the camaraderie I want while enjoying sundowners with people I like. And best of all, I don’t have to yell at them, or be yelled at.

[sailorboy1]

When a racer goes back to his/her cruising boat and goes sailing with their spouse/partner does the racing lessons become a plus or a big problem?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

* Note to Mike O'Reilly: I found racing fun. I enjoyed working as part of the team, and having teammates. It structured leisure time in the out of doors when my ex had the kids. To me, it was a pleasant social activity that, as crew, was utterly inexpensive, just my food and fuel..and I was going to eat, anyway, plus it was only 20 mi.

Maybe this is an introvert/extrovert thing Ann. I’ve always shied away from being part of a team. And the whole idea of "structured leisure time" gives me the willies! Maybe it’s b/c (or explains why) I never had kids. It also explains why I’ve always been self employed .

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

When a racer goes back to his/her cruising boat and goes sailing with their spouse/partner does the racing lessons become a plus or a big problem?

There are a few racers who crew for me, on deliveries and when cruising. That they know and care about trim is a huge plus. However, it became clear to me racing and cruising often leads to different choices. For the racer, sail trim is always about maximizing speed. When cruising, we often prioritize comfort. One racer friend didn't understand when I centerlined the main to stabilize the boat in light following air and rolly seas. My crew/passengers were much happier, though.

[Tayana42]

The first time I was on a sailboat I knew this was for me. The first time I was on a sailboat in a race I knew this was not for me. Clear and simple. Sailing, cruising, getting safely, efficiently and comfortably from point A to points B,C,D and otherwise challenges me, keeps me fully aware of the experience and the environment. Racing around buoys just doesn't interest me.

[arsenelupiga]

1. We bought a boat for rest & relaxation - competing isn't relaxing!
2. Why risk a collision with an aggressive racer?

The only time I have raced, some jerk purposely hit our boat - apparently some racing rule was on his side and immediately started yelling - lawyers lawyers... obviously that was his attraction to the sport. or maybe lawyer wanted to pump up business.



I will never go that low to have anything to do with such people. Racing on a passage against other cruiser, for 0.5 hour will do.



On other side, I enjoy improving my trimming skills.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by accomplice

There are a few racers who crew for me, on deliveries and when cruising. That they know and care about trim is a huge plus. However, it became clear to me racing and cruising often leads to different choices. For the racer, sail trim is always about maximizing speed. When cruising, we often prioritize comfort. One racer friend didn't understand when I centerlined the main to stabilize the boat in light following air and rolly seas. My crew/passengers were much happier, though.

We, too, choose comfort over speed, sometimes, also to avoid beating the boat up unnecessarily, as well.

Ann

[silversailor]

This discussion is great. Most times the question is posed to racers and they really have no clue why non-racers choose not to race. Many of the above answers can educate the racers. Much depends on their attitude. If they are "exclusive" "not inviting" and don't ease newbies into racing they effectively exclude others and then sit around asking "why?" For starters, they should read all of the above responses.

[caradow]

Not to offend anyone but the most successful race boats are the quite ones.
Skippers who yell are usually unsure of themselves and have an ego that will not allow them to take responsibility for mistakes.
When racing becomes well orchestrated there is a Zen to it and it can be very quite and a beautiful experience.
Just takes a while to get there.
However one of the down sides not well discussed is that running a race boat is like raising a family with personality clashes and it takes a while to weed out the ones that do not mesh with the rest of the crew. However it is possible and can be quite rewarding but it takes a hell of a lot of work.
When I started cruising i brought a race boat mentality with me and remember passages of 6-800 miles that I would have a crew of at least 6. Then it occurred to me is all I really needed was one more person other than myself and since that time it has been much more relaxing.
I have gone from sleeping on wet sails to a real bed and quite enjoy that aspect today in my cruising world.

[jeepbluetj]

I don't race. I'd like to. I learned on racing boats. I don't race because:

* I have to go to work. Racing (as crew) would require more time than I can spare (although I'd work on it if I found a good boat)

* I won't race my own boat, as it's PHRF is something like 900.... Ok, not that bad but it's s slow boat.

* Yellers. Nothing worse than yelling at crew. Educate, don't yell. (Particularly in a beer can race... sheeesh...)

I'm kinda with Caradow above - once you get a good team together a lot goes unsaid and folks just do. And that's a ton of fun to me.

[Interloper]

Originally Posted by caradow

Skippers who yell are usually unsure of themselves and have an ego that will not allow them to take responsibility for mistakes. When racing becomes well orchestrated there is a Zen to it and it can be very quiet and a beautiful experience.

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

I'm kinda with Caradow above - once you get a good team together a lot goes unsaid and folks just do. And that's a ton of fun to me.

+2. I've found the same. The better boats are usually very quiet, everyone is able and knows what needs to be done at any given time, it all happens seamlessly without any fuss. They only talk when something really out of the ordinary happens, and then there's no yelling.

[Liam Wald]

This is a really great thread because it has caused me to give reflection for the better part of the day on why I really enjoy sailing. I already responded a while back but feel compelled to add a second feeling about sailboat racing to the mix.

I know that fun is different things to different people. But for me, leaving the slip/harbor (especially in a small harbor) at the same time that 30-50 other boats are leaving and then going out to sail basically in circles around the same 2-3 square miles of water with those other 30-50 boats is simply just not fun as far as I am concerned.
If I can sail all day on only a few tacks and see very few other boats in the process, that, for me, is a fun day.