Where Has My Thinking Gone Wrong ?

[zeehag]

good movie that and hope is eternal....zihuateneo or how ever they speel it may be next stop or so for my 2 masted sloop......

[svWindfall]

As a full time cruiser I haven't met anyone with a perfect boat yet...there's always something to make a glitch in it's perfectness.

The best advise... Buy a boat, make it safe to cruise, set a date to take off, and stick to the plan! You'll never have that "Perfect" boat.

Meanwhile, you could be out here enjoying and living "The Life" on a not so perfect boat, or continue endlessly dreaming while working on boats (for others) that won't ever leave the harbor. It's your call.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

I have a plan, and it seems soooooo simple. That is why I am assuming I must be missing something.

I want to get into sailing, but I am not a rich man. So here is the plan:

I plan to buy a small boat such as an old O'Day 27 on the cheap for 4G or so. Fix it up in bristol condition, re-sell. Buy an O'DDay 30. Rinse Repeat. Later, move to Bristols until I am at my dream boat of a Bristol 40.I do not plan to get a severely damaged boat for nothing and have it sink my finances. Something with Smaller engine probs, a solid hull, but just damn ugly and neglected.

Here is my skill set:

In the past I have repaired several power boats. both wood and fiberglass. I am not a mechanic, but have rebuilt 2 gas auto engines in my day. I built my house(to include all framing, electrical, plumbing, heating, finishing). I have some experience working with composites (E glass S glass Kevlar Carbon Fiber... etc). And once built a 12' wood lapstrake rowboat.

Nautically, I have a 6 pack Capt ticket (no sail endorsement). I spent 7 years on the Great Lakes ore boats up to and including an AB (unlimited) wheelsman.

I have spent the past year learning all I can about sailboats and the market thereof.

Seems like a no-brainer. But as I also have no brain, I am sure I am missing something.

With the combined years of experience here (if added up would approach the time of "The Firmament") I am hoping you can tell me if I am on the right track.

One problem you have is that a boat doesn't need to be in Bristol to be sold. It's a buyer's market, and people will take a less-than-perfect boat and finish it to their satisfaction. You're going to pick your "flip" boats extremely carefully and know when you've done enough to make it salable at a profit worth your time.

Do you have the skills to allow you to spot major but hidden flaws in a sailboat? Most people hire a surveyor before buying a boat unless they're buying a small fixer-upper. That's because you can have tons of knowledge and still not spot major problems.

Will you be holding down a regular job while doing this?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

Don, as a long time lurker here, I have always enjoyed your posts.



Can you explain the logic here?

I think his point is that it's SUCH a buyer's market that you can find the boat of your dreams but in need of repair at a really good price right now. Find someone who really needs to sail the kind of boat you want. There are some real deals out there.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

I get that. But as I plan to live aboard. Won't that make up for the rent that I now pay?

I don't mean to insult Duluth. I'm sure it's a fine place to live, but I don't think the cost of living there is particularly high.

You going to do this in Minnesota? Your winter expenses will go up. You going to move south? You may find that the cost of living goes up considerably along the ocean. I don't think you can save enough to live on one boat while flipping another, and I think you may underestimate the effect of living aboard on the salability of the boat. You just have "stuff" everywhere. It will look crowded and small while you're living on it.

If you buy two boats and anchor them side by side, then you WILL be working on two boats at once. You'll really have your hands full in a bad storm if you're anchored out. In addition, there are some things that can only be done on land.

Then there's the cost of the dinghy you'll use to get back and forth (although there are sweet deals on them, too...)

It just doesn't seem very workable to me, I'm sorry.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Could you live inside a single-size-garage wood shop?
Everything is buried under everything else, tools, clothes, food, chemicals, papers and fiberglass dust. There's not enough room for all the supplies and tools needed just to do the work.

You asked!

Exactly.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Refurbing 3 boats?, that's at least a couple of years........

Sounds like you have the skills needed, just that financially it makes no sense.

I wouldn't normally suggest jumping into a 40' refurb project as a first boat but if you are looking to liveaboard and as your timescale appears to have a few years in it then no problem in having a boat that is not capable of going anywhere ........and in the 40' range enough room to live in whilst other parts of the boat are a building site ......might not work though if married - and wanting to stay that way

On a 40' boat he would even have room for a small shop. The yard sales here have had a wide range of tools at really good prices, but if you already have them it might be better to put them in a van or U-haul and bring them down.

But working on a boat at anchor -- you have to think about the rolling of the boat, and whether you will get seasick while working with fiddly parts and tools below decks. I've seen seasoned sailors get seasick just changing an impeller.

On a 40' foot boat you could mark off part of the inside for workspace and even hang a sheet to contain the dust and dirt to some extent. You'd want to start with a boat that has sound hull and rigging -- a boat that is dry enough to live on comfortably.

If you live at anchor you also have to consider electrical supply. How much power will your tools take? I know a guy who has his workshop set up in a storage unit facility pretty reasonably, so that might be an option for you.

It might be several years before you could sail this boat, but you would have it exactly the way you want, make it as Bristol as you want and not worry about whether the customer is willing to pay for it or not.

If you join a local sailing club you could have opportunities to sail on other boats, or if the club has some for member use, do the sailing yourself. You can share knowledge and swap tools as needed.

Have you been reading publications like GOOD OLD BOAT?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Then she can do half the work, cause boat repair/maintenance is 50% clean up. Drill a hole, clean up. Paint, clean up. Run some FG, clean up. Sand the wood, clean up. And on and on!

One thing to remember too! While the boat is just sitting in the water, while your working away on the top and inside, the bottom side is going to s#!^.

Not if it's fiberglass. Just jump in the water and scrub it well once a month. Eventually it may need to be painted but I know a fellow who hasn't painted the bottom of his boat in 19 years. The boat doesn't leak, hasn't sunk, and it's not that hard for him to scrub the hull.

[svWindfall]

The REAL question is can your WIFE live in that? Thats a tough sell at best!

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I suggest you just jump to a 40' fixer upper and save the "steps".

+1
The market is perfect for this approach if ya have a few bucks.

[vintageray]

Buy the boat that you want to have eventually, now. Living on a boat smaller than 40' and working on it at the same time would be nuts, not to mention probably unprofitable. I live on a 40' ketch, currently in a slip (not me, the boat) with my dog. The v berth is full of tools and supplies. The daily living stuff like getting up, cooking, cleaning house, dishes, running to the store, paying bills etc. take up lots of time and there are days (lots) when nothing gets done in the way of work on the boat, but with a boat this size, one can still live a somewhat normal life and when there's time, break out the tools and get to work on something. Get the engine running, the helm operational and enough lights working to be legal and you're good to go on your adventure living aboard and fixing up your home on the water, a home that can take you anywhere in the world.

[Strait Shooter]

I'm have my 38' home stripped to the stringers in the middle of a refit. Everythings in tupperware, I work at a job (i may be lucky, but not THAT lucky), eat from cartons a lot, and sleep in a great sleeping bag 4-5 days out of the week.

The boats always sailable if I can help it and its warm and dry.

I'm having a blast.

I may be a tad biased but my advice would certainly lean towards going after it. Life is way to frigging short for anything less. That's just me though.

[Rhapsody-NS27]

Originally Posted by bogdwell

Later, move to Bristols until I am at my dream boat of a Bristol 40.

Bristol 40 is a nice boat. I've had my eye on Bristol 38.8, 35.5 and Sabre 38. Like some of the advice, I was thinking of going for a large boat with no intention to sell too.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Not if it's fiberglass. Just jump in the water and scrub it well once a month. Eventually it may need to be painted but I know a fellow who hasn't painted the bottom of his boat in 19 years. The boat doesn't leak, hasn't sunk, and it's not that hard for him to scrub the hull.

+1

Don't forget the Anode. and don't worry about the hull growing a beard........yer ain't going anywhere for a few years

[Don1500]

Originally Posted by LoveMyWoodie

Dons joking cause he bought a beautiful sailing vessel and he just went thru some adjusting like i did since we both looking for admirals whom we miss more tan what we know.

Yes, I was joking about that boat. But I kept seeing it as I searched for my boat. It takes a long time (took me over a year) to find a boat you will "settle" for (you always have compromises). I agree with buying your last boat first. You can kill your dream after working so hard to get a boat ready to sell only to find that you lose money on the deal. There is a 34' Tartan for sale in Maryland that was completely rebuilt, outside, and the inside needs to be done. It is going for $15K: (1976 Tartan 34C sailboat for sale in Maryland) You can see this guy is losing quite a bit and he can't sell at that price. I would look at this type of boat if you want to referb. If you bought a $5K boat it would take $10K to get it to this point.