Where did I go wrong?

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by Pete17C

How much did the truck, insurance, and licensing cost you when you 'did it yourself'?

If your DIY plumbing job goes bad and shiat starts leaking (pun intended), who do you call back to fix it? (or more importantly, who pays for it?)

1/2 hour of work on the jobsite involves a bit more than 1/2 hour of work

The overhead is a factor but the big factor here is price gauging. If that plumber knew what the job entailed and he had a truck full of parts he was just trying to rip off his potential customer.

I recently got quotes on some minor home improvements. $5000 to hang a door in an existing arch. A day's work at most. $1000 in materials at most. Is a carpenter's time worth $4000 a day? I don't think so.

A heating contractor charged me $250 to walk in the door. After describing the components that needed fixing to the company service dispatcher she told me that the parts would be on the truck. When the guy arrived he did not have the parts and said that they do not stock the parts. Even though the company specialized in my type of heating and said they service these pumps all the time the service guy said he would have to order the parts and come back. I ordered the parts myself and fixed it myself. The local supplier will not sell to individuals, they protect the companies they sell to. Thank you Internet and Google for letting me find a supplier.

Pete17C I suspect from your responses that you are in the trades. Where I live there is a shortage of skilled labor and the trades know it and they gouge because of it. I could do ten jobs, screw up one and call in a pro to fix it and still be way ahead. I am happy to say I probably do 100 jobs myself and have to redo one or two.

End of rant.

[barnakiel]

Well, if it is your boat then why don't you just work on it yourself?


Or do you have some hms titanic or something alike that asks for coal and slaves?


Cheers,
b.

[ben2go]

Originally Posted by maxingout

Where did I go wrong?

I worked as a flying doctor for the Indian Health Service in Arizona for $95 an hour. I then came to Florida, and it costs $100 per hour for someone to work on my boat.

I am now retired from my work as a flying doctor and I am happy to know that if I run out of money, I can always return to work in a boatyard in Florida and work for $100 an hour.

There is hope now that I have a fallback plan.

POSITIVE FLYING DOCTOR - IT'S NOT JUST A JOB, IT'S AN ADVENTURE - POSITIVE THINKING DOCTOR - DAVID J. ABBOTT M.D.

Well dressed, well-groomed gigolo makes $1100 an hour in FL. Have you considered that route?

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by john61ct

You **completely** miss my point.

In fact your example helps make my point.

Yes in technological advances, and theoretical availability of exotic high tech, we are still pretty high up the list.

Which has almost zero connection to the markers of quality public health I'm talking about.

You need to be lucky, or wealthy here to routinely get those sorts of expensive high tech treatments. Still having citizen's health care tied to "a steady job" is irresponsible, even criminal IMO when that is not available to the majority of humans in the country.

Look at time series graphs on actual performance indicators like life expectancy, average infant mortality rate, women dying in childbirth.

Focus on preventive care.

Fair access to basic health care for all no matter your income level is actually still debated as to whether that should even be a goal or not!

Many truly poor "third world" countries provide better care than most of our States.

Most of what you're saying here simply isn't true in any way, shape or form. Sounds like you've been listening to too many political speeches, which take an anecdote and blow it up to a theory. Or reading too many "news" stories, which always seem to have an agenda other than providing basic facts.

Virtually every fact critics throw out about health care is in some way affected by something OTHER than health care.

Please provide an example of what you mean by this:

Many truly poor "third world" countries provide better care than most of our States.

If we're going to be critics, lets be critical consumers of information. It takes a lot of work to read through the available information and separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Most of what you're saying here simply isn't true in any way, shape or form. Sounds like you've been listening to too many political speeches, which take an anecdote and blow it up to a theory. Or reading too many "news" stories, which always seem to have an agenda other than providing basic facts....

...If we're going to be critics, lets be critical consumers of information. It takes a lot of work to read through the available information and separate the wheat from the chaff.

A consumer critical about how they spend their money would recognize when they're paying 15% more for a product that provides markedly less utility than would that can be procured, in other markets, for 15% less.

This purveyor of the "pay 15% more, it's really the best" had his information challenged in an uncomfortable manner....at the 3:25 minute mark:
Third World Health Care - Knoxville, Tennessee Edition - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (Video Clip) | Comedy Central

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We got a plumber's quote for work at our house for $800 plus parts for a job I did my self in 1/2 an hour.

$1600 per hour. I could live on that.

Since some are riffing on this, I have to ask for a reality check here: what was the problem, what work was quoted, what did you do? I don't believe that what the plumber proposed to do for $800 is exactly what you did in 1/2 hr...

A long story shortened: this spring I successfully snaked out a sewer clog... only to have the snake break off. It couldn't be retrieved with another snake; I ended up calling a recommended plumber. The snake retrieval required digging in our driveway to expose part of the sewer. The work was planned so that an obsolete trap & downspout connection could be removed at the same time, and a backflow preventer installed (which was eligible for a city rebate). While the work took place, it was found that the trap was actually 90% clogged with roots, and the under-floor clay sewerpipe had been leaking, so all that got replaced with new PVC pipe and a better floor-drain with prime.

The job entailed 3 guys (2 outside, one in the basement), a small excavator, 2 trucks and a trailer. It was all done and cleaned up in a day. It came to over CDN$ 4K, but I'm getting about a third back from the rebate. It needed to be done, and it would have cost us (or the next owner) the same, regardless of my snake mishap. So you might say that the actual wasted money in this case was my snake rentals and the hours I spent snaking, breaking floor, and trying to retrieve the broken end.

So... a sort of botched DIY led to discovery of other problems, and they were all addressed in a day, professionally, city-inspected, AND i get part of the charges rebated because of the backflow valve program. And we qualify now for reduced insurance. Net result - our 90+ year old house received a necessary update that will count when we go to sell it. And I don't have to look at (or smell) a sewer snake ever again.

(I hope you found the above informative, or at least amusing)

ANYWAYS... yes many of us are capable of the work, and we SHOULD be able to our own basic work (house, car or boat) but good tradespeople can usually do it faster and better. And depending what your own wage/salary is, it often makes sense to pay someone to do in an hour what it would take us 3+ hours to do. What's YOUR rate or billable for 3 hours of work?

[shortstan]

BOY you just opened a can worms up. First Im a licensed aircraft mechanic that worked on BIG name owners of jets like Gulfstreams G2 and G3 etc for almost 16 years. I sure didn't even come close to making the money Marine mechanics make. I was in a shop next to the Gulf and was looking at something USED and asked how much it was and about fell on the floor when they quoted me a price. I asked her why it was so much. She told me "honey your living next to the water" I looked at her and said "I SURE DONT SEE NO SHIPS WITH CARGO CONTAINERS" I only see UPS and Fedex and trucks coming and going. I bought my first boat almost 4 years ago and paid a lot of money to have it inspected to see what I was getting this included a oil sample which to this day I have never received. Actually the report wasn't too bad and I knew buying an old boat it would need some repairs but not a total restore. Well i was wrong wrong wrong. Was in the bottom looking around and found two no 2 battery wires running from the a Solenoid which was super sized. Looking at solenoid i saw the wires from the battery were straight from the battery and by passed the solenoid. Wondering what it did i started following them back to where the Generator was at and looking closely they were laying back there with nothing over the positive or negative wires to keep them from shorting out. Now mind you I paid this guy (####$$%%) good money to inspect this boat. Does he not no he could send somebody to their death out in GULF is the boat caught fire? This is not the only thing i have found wrong. If you want to know all the story give me a couple of days to write it. Mechanic's? I have yet to find one to write home about. I stand over them like an inspector and make them stop taking short cuts and do it right. Now while I'm HOT lol I let this guy who owns a marine pull my boat to send the props out and be checked and recondition. Got that done at that time I lived in another state and me and my son drove down to look at the boat after it was finished. When I got there i climbed up and pulled the generator hatch and the WHOLE DAMN BOAT WAS FILLED WITH RAIN WATER UP TO THE DIESEL INJECTORS on generator. I went and was looking at the power cord as I had instructed them to keep batteries charged for the pumps to keep it dry. Well batteries won't charge when on the air condition PLUG. Daaaaaaaaaaa shaking my head. I climbed down on the ground and got a wrench and pulled the drain plug and WOW must have been at least 5 0r 6 55 gal drums of water. I went in and asked them why the power plug was in the wrong plug and the drain plug not removed. I got this story that it WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY to remove drain plug. Then the of course I had to drain and change the oil in generator which I thought I was lucky not to have water in it. Thought i was home free was told it was rain water and it would be ok. BULL it still corroded the gen head wouldnt work even after getting the engine to run. Could not get it to charge. So that cost me $10,000 to replace and then everything in the hole had to be replace because of corrosion. Never got any help or money to fix it. And I did the work myself.

I could go on and on about letting people work on my boat. NOW if they do it I'm the inspector and were going to do it my way or the highway and its my money. I could write a book about this boat and being a first time owner of a boat, I decided its like buying a car from a shady street car dealer.

Yes I'm still pissed about this whole thing and I would like to buy another boat but I DON'T TRUST ANYBODY.

Living in Florida? Been here two years and cant afford to move else where or I would. Even the contractors are something else. Now I do most of the work myself even on the house and cars.

Sorry about this post but I've had 4 years of my butt hurting and no vaseline was ever used.

Also if the owners of this forum would like me to leave just let me know.

Maybe the Coast Guard should do like the FAA did and make people go to school and get a license. Covers my eyes and ears LOL

Shorty

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

Boat work isn't hard,

.

You've obviously never built boats before

but a lot of people with boats have more money than skills or time.

Hence, the premium for boat work.

And waterfront property is expensive and there is a limited supply. Hence, the premium for boatyards in desirable locations.

But its only a recent thing.
20 years ago I was flat out getting $15 an hour with trade qualifications and gave the game away as there was no money in it.

Now anyone with a pulse that can count to 3 is getting paid silly money.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Paul L

We live out of the US most of the year. Been in Australia for the last year. When we come back to the US to visit I find food, restrauants and boat parts much cheaper than places like Aust. Of course in Aust a couple each working a minimum wage job can get by and have health insurance - no luxuries but get by.

Don't even need health insurance here.
Free public healthcare system.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Many truly poor "third world" countries provide better care than most of our States.

I think the issue is, you consider "better care" to mean more modern, involving recent research-driven developments in the technology of treating life-threatening illnesses.

I think that's fine of course, but secondary to the free and easy accessibility of basic care - the things that **prevent** people from visiting full-blown hospitals, no concerns at all among the poor wrt expenses beyond a standard maximum copay less than the cost of a deli meal.

Look at our trends over thirty years wrt infant mortality rates, women dying in childbirth, obesity & diabetes, suicide / depression / drug abuse etc etc.

**Public health** results, not per-capita spending where 90% of the resources are consumed by the wealthiest 20%.

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Don't even need health insurance here.
Free public healthcare system.

Ahh.. someone is paying for it..

[olaf hart]

Originally Posted by maxingout

We did everything we could comfortably do during our refit. If I had known it would take so long to do the refit, I probably would have taken the time to develop more skills.

The smartest thing I did was have a son who worked for free during the refit. All that free work will be rewarded by a family adventure through the South Pacific and on to Australia. Free crew as well!

When you make it to Tasmania, be sure to look me up, another old flying doctor from outback Oz.

To all these folks bragging about “ free” health care in Oz, it actually costs us over 10% of GDP, or close to 30% of tax revenue, and that is based on running things on the smell of an oily rag.

The true cost is burnout of doctors, nurses and other health professionals.

I finally gave up and retired when the Medicare rebate reached 50% of a reasonable fee and my overheads were 50%, made more sense to close the practice and lie on a beach.

And I couldn’t give the practice away, so had to close it.

So it’s all fine to promise people a free health care system, but you have to be prepared to pay for it.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

When you make it to Tasmania, be sure to look me up, another old flying doctor from outback Oz.

To all these folks bragging about “ free” health care in Oz, it actually costs us over 10% of GDP, or close to 30% of tax revenue, and that is based on running things on the smell of an oily rag.

The true cost is burnout of doctors, nurses and other health professionals.

I finally gave up and retired when the Medicare rebate reached 50% of a reasonable fee and my overheads were 50%, made more sense to close the practice and lie on a beach.

And I couldn’t give the practice away, so had to close it.

So it’s all fine to promise people a free health care system, but you have to be prepared to pay for it.

That sounds a little out of touch. Aussie's do have access to private health insurance and the government provides incentives for those to take up the option. The 10% gdp figure could be true, but the 30% of taxation is questionable. Does it include private health contributions? How about gap payments? Out of pocket costs?

I was at the local gp's yesterday to get a flu jab and the place is run like a factory. It's expanded over the years and I was surprised to walk out of there having been totally bulk billed (I.e others had "paid" for it). Imo, nothing wrong with this style of doctoring for 90% of gp visits.

Yay to social health programs, I say.

[Pete17C]

Originally Posted by stormalong

The overhead is a factor but the big factor here is price gauging. If that plumber knew what the job entailed and he had a truck full of parts he was just trying to rip off his potential customer.

I recently got quotes on some minor home improvements. $5000 to hang a door in an existing arch. A day's work at most. $1000 in materials at most. Is a carpenter's time worth $4000 a day? I don't think so.

A heating contractor charged me $250 to walk in the door. After describing the components that needed fixing to the company service dispatcher she told me that the parts would be on the truck. When the guy arrived he did not have the parts and said that they do not stock the parts. Even though the company specialized in my type of heating and said they service these pumps all the time the service guy said he would have to order the parts and come back. I ordered the parts myself and fixed it myself. The local supplier will not sell to individuals, they protect the companies they sell to. Thank you Internet and Google for letting me find a supplier.

Pete17C I suspect from your responses that you are in the trades. Where I live there is a shortage of skilled labor and the trades know it and they gouge because of it. I could do ten jobs, screw up one and call in a pro to fix it and still be way ahead. I am happy to say I probably do 100 jobs myself and have to redo one or two.

End of rant.

Yeah, I'm a tinkocker by trade, but pretty good with the tools in any regard. I would never pay those prices.

But if you live in a neighborhood where I can charge them, yeah, I pretty much have to charge them otherwise I can't afford to live close enough so when your furnace goes out in the middle of the night I can get there before you get cold.

It's just math from there, the bigger the neighborhood the more 'trades people' you need nearby to support it, and cheap housing isn't cheap in the 'neighborhood' anymore

or, to keep it on topic, should I not get to have a boat, when the customers I serve do?

[masonc]

We do almost all our own work, which on a 1972 Cheoy Lee is a lot. My workers from my business help sand and varnish, change the transmission, rewire, etc. And we make our own fabrics.
When we haul to do the bottom, the yard in St. Kitts charges $18/hour for sanding and painting. I had a day's fiberglass work done where I couldn't reach, cost $125 total.