Where did I go wrong?

[Chris Whitney]

Thinking the doctors are getting 100 per visit of about 6 min. So doing the math as they never leave the office, so the average billing per hour is closer to $600 which also covers the office staff and overhead. My divorce attorney was around $400 per hour.

Your example of flying to a location likely saw more than one patient while there.and more rare to spend an hour with one. Doctors are very rare in those parts so likely they line up for hours for that precious few min of your time at what ever they can pay, often in chickens. So Good Karma comes from that level of caring for others on top of payment.

The poor mechanic might charge for $120, but he rarely bills 40 hours a week. and rarer 8 in a day. Lots of down time between projects. Many tasks are 4 hours or less.

Most repairmen I have had at our boat came back on follow up for free, as well as taught me lots about what they were doing, so I didn't have to pay them the second time. were had a doctor offer that little extra.

I am tight as the next sailor in not wanting to pay more than I need to. But not one of us remember what we paid for a repair when at sea, facing a storm and really need that repair to hold fast.

In my work (Architect) we have fancy hourly rates that make us blush, but most of our work is lump sum fees and we are delighted if we see a 10% profit after all the bills are paid.

All a mater of perspective.

[john61ct]

Well if the yard businesses doesn't generate profits sufficient to compare to a condo redevelopment, they'll be disappearing over time.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by maxingout

Where did I go wrong?

Born in the wrong time/place in history.

In the US the influx of funny money/voodoo economics in the last 50 years has killed the middle class by artificially propping up the labor class. Before everyone's house magically increased in value somehow...meaning before people became magically flush with cash, people were not able to pay a tradesperson the fees charged by a someone in a profession (insofar as until recently in history few people were regarded as professionals).

As pointed out upthread...as the finance/voodoo economic era is coming to an end, "black market" laborer is popping up, just like capitalism dictates. In the pseudo-luxury endeavors that the upper middle class used to enjoy (e.g. boats, planes) there are so few middle-class people left that who can pay professional fees for what should be labor/tradesman charges.

Make no mistake...historically the quality of life/standard of living has always been less for laborers/tradesmen than the professionals (you see this in history books and in developing countries). This means that if a heart surgeon can only afford a small house, it should be expected that a mechanic has an apartment or tent. This is the consequence of pure supply/demand economics. It's voodoo economics that allows a mechanic to afford a better lifestyle than someone who spent $200k out of pocket and 8 years of pay-to-play study just to be able to do his/her work. But nowadays everyone is a "professional" with all types of insurance, fees, regulations, whatever, etc, to justify their charges (while it's not PC to tall them on it).

[stewie]

The USA is a very expensive place to live or do work to a yacht in. I visit regularly and wonder how ordinary people manage to get by. Labour costs are way too high, which is why the place is too expensive and many people need 2 jobs to get by. Eating out is double, or even more than in many other countries. Health care insurance is a crippling cost, but no better than the $140 I pay in Europe. Even the price of booze is double. I know that most on-shore Americans think that the USA is the best place to live.

[fatherchronica]

My father was the largest union framing contractor in Los Angeles. He came back from WWII and became a carpenter building chicken coops, then the occasional home, then tracts and apartment buildings. He had a lot of employees and overhead to be sure. But he told me that he made a $1,000 an hour the entire time JFK was in office. We didn't know growing up in a tiny tract home that there was any extra money around, but in retrospect we should have known. That was in the days before credit cards and for emergencies my dad always had 5, 1000 dollar bills in his wallet. Different thread I guess, but to me it is all relative. When Nicaraguan inflation was out of control about 1990 I had dinner with a friend at "Antojitos" across the street from the Managua Intercontinental Hotel. It was a swell meal on the terrace with occasional gunfire near and far, and the bill was 128,000,000 Cordobas. If they had not been stamping new numbers on bills you couldn't have carried enough money on your person to buy a loaf of bread or a boli.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by stewie

I know that most on-shore Americans think that the USA is the best place to live.

It is, but only if you aspire to become part of the rentier class.

The mythos is anyone can get there

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

— Ronald Wright,*A Short History of Progress

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by bobs

No , but the customer pays it , in full.
Not to focus or aiming on you , but the outrageous professional prices that are going around justify a parallel black market of semi-professionals/skilled DIY'ers that help people out for an acceptable fee .
On this board the advise is even for free .
Good thing !!

You talk about "UBER" "RB&B" etc..?

[stormalong]

Plumber: That will be $250 per hour.

Doctor: I am a doctor and I don't charge that much.

Plumber: Neither did I when I was a doctor.

[jrbogie]

had a plummer unclog a drain. when he gave me the invoice I told him he charges more than my doctor. he said he once was a doctor.

[The Perfessor]

Originally Posted by maxingout

We did everything we could comfortably do during our refit. If I had known it would take so long to do the refit, I probably would have taken the time to develop more skills.

The smartest thing I did was have a son who worked for free during the refit. All that free work will be rewarded by a family adventure through the South Pacific and on to Australia. Free crew as well!

What's your ROI on your son? With college, etc., I'm still paying in... It's almost as bad as a boat (ok, nothing is as expensive as a boat!). At least with a boat, if it gets too expensive, you can sell the boat... Apparently, according to Family and Child Services, it's "not appropriate" to sell you kids for boat repairs. Sheesh.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by maxingout

Where did I go wrong?

I worked as a flying doctor for the Indian Health Service in Arizona for $95 an hour. I then came to Florida, and it costs $100 per hour for someone to work on my boat.

If you're healthy, became a doctor, had a family, and can afford a condomaran, you haven't gone wrong.


Have some love for the trades. The guy in the yard who's actually doing your boat work is probably making $30 or less an hour. I worked one summer for a busy marine electrician; his billing was $110 per hour... WHEN there's billable work. But overall he figured he made annually the equivalent of someone working steadily at $45/hour. Last year he had to step away from most work because his knees have blown out from all the tool hauling and crawling around boats.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by stewie

The USA is a very expensive place to live or do work to a yacht in. I visit regularly and wonder how ordinary people manage to get by. Labour costs are way too high, which is why the place is too expensive and many people need 2 jobs to get by. Eating out is double, or even more than in many other countries. Health care insurance is a crippling cost, but no better than the $140 I pay in Europe. Even the price of booze is double. I know that most on-shore Americans think that the USA is the best place to live.

Compared to where?


I think I'd argue that yachting and eating out in most parts of Europe is even more expensive.


Most places in Europe charge next to nothing for healthcare, but the taxes are much higher than in the U.S.

[hpeer]

FWIW, for some years I worked in the “design/consultation” field mainly for state agencies. Our rates were frequently audited by whatever state we were working in. Our “multiplier” was around 4.2, some small design groups were as low a 4, the odd one would be 4.4ish.

So if I was getting $100/hour as my hourly rate, the Owner would be billed $420/hr for my services.

These we all in, inclusive, markups. That is to say they included owners SS contributions, FICA, state unemployment insurance, office rental, retirement contributions, vacation, PTO, advertising, HR/marketing/payroll, executive salaries.

When I was doing electrical contracting estimating for union electrical workers in the NYC area, once you figured in all the various contributions and lost time factors etc the markups were similar.

Then when I was trying to bid a job in Florida I had to do some very serious adjustment. Not only was the pay rate much lower but the other overheads were also far lower. Hard to wrap my head around the total hourly cost differential.

[letsgetsailing3]

This week I listened to several Presidential candidates describe how they came from meager, working-class families to ultimately join the Senate and now run for President. So maybe it is possible, after all.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by stewie

The USA is a very expensive place to live or do work to a yacht in. I visit regularly and wonder how ordinary people manage to get by. Labour costs are way too high, which is why the place is too expensive and many people need 2 jobs to get by. Eating out is double, or even more than in many other countries. Health care insurance is a crippling cost, but no better than the $140 I pay in Europe. Even the price of booze is double. I know that most on-shore Americans think that the USA is the best place to live.

We live out of the US most of the year. Been in Australia for the last year. When we come back to the US to visit I find food, restrauants and boat parts much cheaper than places like Aust. Of course in Aust a couple each working a minimum wage job can get by and have health insurance - no luxuries but get by.