WhatsApp for Boats?

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

You cannot call using VHF out of range any way. So your only option is to use a common communication layer, likely the Internet or direct calling the phone number in your address book.

Yes, this needs to be over the Internet.

One major problem with address book is that, you cannot call someone that you don't have the contact details for. If there is a boat 100 miles further than you and you don't know who they are, you cannot call them.

Think about this as long distance VHF-like calling over the Internet, when you know the boat (or a group of boats in an area) but nothing else.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Yes, this needs to be over the Internet.

One major problem with address book is that, you cannot call someone that you don't have the contact details for. If there is a boat 100 miles further than you and you don't know who they are, you cannot call them.

Think about this as long distance VHF-like calling over the Internet, when you know the boat (or a group of boats in an area) but nothing else.

In noforeignland you can register your boat along with contact informations, blog, skype, facebook, patreon, youtube channel, pinterrest, phone number, e-mail address and can be reached by the internal chat program.

But for privacy reason most people don't want to share this with the public, I wouldn't either. You are reacheable by the chat and you can subscribe for emails notification on new messages.

I guess, this is the best solution to keep your privacy but can be contacted.

[crankysailor]

Most people don't/can't/won't even use DSC .. at least that is my experience in european waters.. you know, what the MMSI is actually for? .. realistically I would expect interest in a chat app so you can be contacted by MMSI to be "limited" to put it nicely.…

[CaptTom]

If I understand this, you'd use current data from AIS shore stations, which you receive over the internet (MarineTraffic dot com, etc.) to identify a boat in that anchorage you may want to visit tomorrow.

Then you'd somehow "ping" that boat to see if they'd mind chatting a bit about what it's like there. Which would be great.

Of course we're assuming both boats have internet at anchor. And that's more likely every year that passes.

This sounds a lot like the old Active Captain "E Boat Cards" app. You signed up, gave it your boat name, and when you turned on the app, it sent your position and name back to Jeff's server. People around you (who also have the app) could see where you were on a rough chart, and if interested, could initiate a conversation.

It's a great theory. I would (and did) try it out. But in practice very few others did, and it died out some time before Jeff sold AC to Garmin.

In summary, if you have this app on a phone or tablet which has built-in GPS and an internet connection, you don't need AIS. You just need to get enough people to use the app.

[CatNewBee]

I am now 6 months under way in heavy sailboat infested waters in the Med and have my DSC-VHF always on (because of our PFD-MOB beacons} and also have run for fun full channel scans.

My findings are, VHF is most of the time silent, some coughs of fisherman, nobody sticks to the protocol really, near ports and TSS there is some traffic, but very limited.

DSC was only 3 times used by coastal stations and only in Croatia to do an announcement of the usual weather and navigational warnings on 16 where they refer to a bunch of channels where the message will be transmitted, scanning the channels lead to no results most of the time.

There are the frequent announcements securite weather and navigational warnings only most of the time and no other traffic for days and weeks.

In France near porquerolle island there were frequent annoying calls from the coast guard calling on 16 to most vessel to identify themselves, last port of call, next port of call, intentions and person on board. I guess for surveys?

Otherwise some british kids done a great job calling each other with full protocol coverage, amazing! I doubt they have a VHF certificate, but operate the thing like pros.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

This sounds a lot like the old Active Captain "E Boat Cards" app. You signed up, gave it your boat name, and when you turned on the app, it sent your position and name back to Jeff's server. People around you (who also have the app) could see where you were on a rough chart, and if interested, could initiate a conversation.

The Plan2Nav app (C-Map vector charts) is being replaced by Embark... and Embark advertises some kind of similar sharing thing in the app.

Haven't looked at it, wouldn't use a feature like that... and didn't use Jeff's Boat Cards when it was still an AC-related feature...

-Chris

[Auspicious]

[QUOTE=Tenedos;2976426]Basically, it's a messaging app for boats, using MMSI or call sign or IMO, whichever is available. So you register by using your MMSI/callsign/IMO, and others can reach you with that from anywhere in the world, or vice versa.[/quota]


I don't see it. Personally, I know how to reach people I want to and my phone rings too many times per day as it is.



There are way too many possible ways to reach someone and not everyone has everything.



If I want to reach someone that I don't know or have the contact information for I already know what I have: some subset of Internet, cell, HF/SSB (maybe Pactor for email), satellite (big, medium, small). If I have a MMSI for the person or ship I want to reach it would be helpful to have a search spider (assuming I can access it from where I am) that crawls all publicly available data and returns all connection modalities.



Remember that access may be tenuous. Consider the Saildocs model - send a message and get a response. This reduces the potential for timeouts. An SMS interface in addition to email would pick up Inreach, SPOT, and such. Whatsapp, Skype, etc. interfaces would be useful. There more people you can reach without having to install another app the greater your take-up will be.



Scenario - ship pops up on AIS so you have a MMSI and once populated ship's name and IMO number. Ship does not respond to VHF. If you can get me the sat phone number without me having to pay hundreds of dollars for the IMO phone book I can call. If the bridge doesn't answer it starts ringing in the captain's cabin.



Scenario - fast trawler passes on ICW. Have MMSI etc. from AIS. No response to VHF. Search spider gets phone number from MTOA so you can send an SMS and ask them to feed back numbers from the tide boards as they pass bridges.



Scenario - sitting in your office with broadband Internet on a multi-head computer with Marinetraffic in a window to the side. AIS gives MMSI of a boat approaching your city/town/spot on the map. The boat is high on your list of boats of interest so you send an email saying so and asking if you can buy them a drink after they get settled. Frankly this one - most like the OP is a little creepy. Personally I wouldn't reply unless I was really bored, or the email started with "follow you on the MTOA forum and see you're in town - any chance of meeting up? Very interested in your boat."



I really don't think you can compete with an app, but you might be the next great thing with targeted search. Sure - a web interface is part of that but the important bit is pulling the information.

[Tenedos]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

If I have a MMSI for the person or ship I want to reach it would be helpful to have a search spider (assuming I can access it from where I am) that crawls all publicly available data and returns all connection modalities.

Now I actually will find this creepy. Leaving alone the technical challenges making this effective, crawling the web and associating pieces of information is somewhat of a breach of privacy in my view. In a messaging app, it is up-to you whether to register. If you register, then how to adjust your settings, who can contact you (people you know, people close to you, etc etc.), etc.

In a crawling scenario, what would happen? I'd get an unsolicited call or e-mail or something else from some random person with or without any context because my post on Cruisers forum got associated with some other site that had my phone number and someone had a question about this other item that was selling from my previous boat?

This today already happens for a lot of things. I get questions on Linkedin, for code I post on GitHub, I get e-mails (not PMs) for some of my earlier posts on Cruisers Forum from people who can find my contact details by tracing the posts and doing additional Google searches (nothing malicious and nothing bad, happy to help fellow cruisers) but you get the idea. In this scenario, I have no control who contacts me and how.

Also, imagine a scenario where this crawler makes a mistake (which is very possible due to technical challenges involved), I get a call for a boat I never owned, or owned 5 years ago asking the history of it?

Taking a step back, a messaging app allows you to communicate the way you want and more importantly if you want. If one doesn't think it is needed, the most simple action is to not use it at all. If they decide to use it, restricting communication or stopping doing so entirely is completely their decision. We already have this today with VHF and DSC within a certain distance limit. You can get a VHF hail/DSC call from another cruiser for a good reason or a bad reason. You answer it or not answer it but it is your choice. The same coming over the Internet is similar, the delta is two-fold: distances can be large and unlike having a VHF, this is obviously optional. If you had thought it would not be useful to you, that text could have never come to you anyways.

A search & associate concept fundamentally breaks that and takes the decision away from you.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Tenedos

Now I actually will find this creepy. Leaving alone the technical challenges making this effective, crawling the web and associating pieces of information is somewhat of a breach of privacy in my view.

It may be creepy. I said as much. If you're worried about privacy you have a bigger problem. MMSI, ship name, and IMO number are broadcast on AIS. For US platforms, you can get from MMSI to owner name from the FCC, BoatUS, SeaTow, USPS databases--all publicly available--as long as you have Internet access.



Frankly for tactical communications when everything works right you can just use VHF DSC from the MMSI you get from AIS. The problem is that lots of boats are out there blasting away on AIS but have their VHF turned off. The pros are turned on but recreational boats very often are not.



Be creeped out all you like (I am) but this is all publicly available information.



The OP is suggesting yet another messaging app. My reaction was and is that there just isn't room in the space for yet another app (Nebo, unlamented eBoatCards, etc). Data aggregation would be useful and anything useful is subject to abuse.

[kev_rm]

Why is an MMSI easier to get from a boat than a whatsapp number?

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by kev_rm

Why is an MMSI easier to get from a boat than a whatsapp number?

The OP was based on MarineTraffic displays that come from AIS and AIS includes MMSI numbers. In fact MMSI is used to correlate dynamic and static messages, and to link dynamic messages together over time.