What makes Morris yachts so expensive?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Arthurgifford

Whenever I see Morris yachts posted they are usually 25 years old and almost $350k. I understand they are beautiful looking, but what makes these boats expensive as they are?? Thanks

They are hand made, with custom options and it takes many hours of labor. A Beneteau etc is made of prefabricated parts, so the setup time to make a bunch of them is low.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

They are hand made, with custom options and it takes many hours of labor. A Beneteau etc is made of prefabricated parts, so the setup time to make a bunch of them is low.

Yes indeed. The issue for high end labour intensive boats is the inexorable need to move up to bigger sizes. There’s only so much a 37 footer can be sold for no matter how “ boutique “ it is. Hence either these builders go bust or they abandon small and medium sized boats. Many just go out of business.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Yes indeed. The issue for high end labour intensive boats is the inexorable need to move up to bigger sizes. There’s only so much a 37 footer can be sold for no matter how “ boutique “ it is. Hence either these builders go bust or they abandon small and medium sized boats. Many just go out of business.

That does become a problem. Many people would rather have a bigger, shinier boat than a better quality boat, so there's a limit to how expensive a given size can get before there are very few customers.

[Boatwright]

Tom Morris was a shirttail relative of mine. Great guy and an incredible craftsman who started way back with a beautiful Friendship Sloop replica. He died tragically while still young of lung cancer -- perhaps from a lifetime of breathing fumes and toxic wood dust. The business passed to his son Cuyler and has since been sold to Hinkley Yachts.

Morris boats a re worth every penny and more. All one needs to do is see one up close. Every detail is perfect.

[dwightsusan]

You gets what you pays for!

[John Williams]

I had not heard of Morris Yachts. I looked them up. The design looks very old fashioned. Looks magnificent but my 41 foot Wauquiez would probably have twice the volume below to the equivalent Morris. The overhangs at the bow and stern give it away. So people obviously buy them for the looks, not their practicality or speed cf overall length.

[letsgetsailing3]

I looked at a model once, and discovered that it had won offshore races.


Maybe not the model you're thinking of, but they're good quality boats overall.

[Tetepare]

Not to negate the quality, Morris and the like demand top dollar because exclusively has a price, like Ferrari and SIG. 20% more “something” costs 100% more. There is a higher profit margin because the buyers demand something most people can’t or won’t rationalize. No Kennedy ever bought a Beneteau*

*Hey Kennedy, yeah I know. You’re not one of THE Kennedys.

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by Joli

Lumber is a renewable crop. Granted some is more expensive and grows more slowly but still, it's a crop.

And a thousand times more is cut and burned to make room to feed cows. Sailboats, guitars and violin bows are not the problem.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by KayZee

And a thousand times more is cut and burned to make room to feed cows. Sailboats, guitars and violin bows are not the problem.

Precious hardwood is the issue and yes yachts and homes do consume it.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Not to negate the quality, Morris and the like demand top dollar because exclusively has a price, like Ferrari and SIG. 20% more “something” costs 100% more. There is a higher profit margin because the buyers demand something most people can’t or won’t rationalize. No Kennedy ever bought a Beneteau*

*Hey Kennedy, yeah I know. You’re not one of THE Kennedys.

It’s just “ high end “ selling. Most high end stuff is not worth the money. It’s not bought by people who are looking for “ value “. It’s bought by people wanting to flaunt their wealth and position. Exactly as you say “ The Kennedy’s “

[Sailor Sailor]

They are quality-built boats, just as Hinckleys, Nautor Swan, Hallberg Rassy and some others are. It is not just the stick built interiors. Higher end boat builders pay more attention to important build issues throughout the boat, such as the design of the deck hull fitting and the fittings through the deck, thus avoiding leaks and wet core. More time is spent building the boat and making sure everything fits well. High stress problem areas on other boats are better designed and better addressed on Morris and Hinckley yachts.

As just one example of the difference, I don't believe they have had any problems with rudders or keels falling off the boat, as some of the cheap mass production AWB builders have. This gives the owners peace of mind.

The designs are traditional and conservative. They are not ostentatious. It is not about showing off; it is about owning a beautiful, safe, well-built boat that may last several generations.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

They are quality-built boats, just as Hinckleys, Nautor Swan, Hallberg Rassy and some others are. It is not just the stick built interiors. Higher end boat builders pay more attention to important build issues throughout the boat, such as the design of the deck hull fitting and the fittings through the deck, thus avoiding leaks and wet core. More time is spent building the boat and making sure everything fits well. High stress problem areas on other boats are better designed and better addressed on Morris and Hinckley yachts.

As just one example of the difference, I don't believe they have had any problems with rudders or keels falling off the boat, as some of the cheap mass production AWB builders have. This gives the owners peace of mind.

The designs are traditional and conservative. They are not ostentatious. It is not about showing off; it is about owning a beautiful, safe, well-built boat that may last several generations.

Well it’s not so altruistic.

The mass market builders require enormous capital investment , semi mechanised processes and try to remove expensive labour.

There is no evidence say a HR is lasting any longer than say a Beneteau , I’ve seen old versions of both with issues and equally one better then thd other.

The idea that say “ stick built” is better then prefabricated is more “ snobbery “ than real life engineering

Rudders and keels have fallen of high end designs , oysters , discovery yachts etc. but the point is this failure is extremely rare across all types of boats. Bringing it up is disingenuous.

High end products are both combinations of cost and “ brand positioning “ A rolls Royce and a Toyota will happily deliver the kids to school equally a Morris and a Beneteau will deliver its crew across oceans too.

Why is the rolls bought , partly a display of status and wealth , partly because the value of money is relative to certain people and partly because people appreciate fine design BUT have the cash to pay for it.

A small manufacturer these days has no choice but to aim for the “ high end “ they can’t invest in high tech automation , so items must be hand built. If you employ lots of labour in western countries that cost will dominate your build costs. To recover that you have to go “ upmarket “ hence we get “ high end “ boats

Hence high end yachts are both “ fashion “ and wealth symbols as well as finely crafted showcases of boat building.

Sadly the future for very small volume have crafted boats is bleak as prices are now outstretching any likely buyers ability. There is only so much a 40 footer Is worth irrespective of how many skilled hands put it together. This has forced some builders into larger designs but it’s a perilous place.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The idea that say “ stick built” is better then prefabricated is more “ snobbery “ than real life engineering

Rudders and keels have fallen of high end designs , oysters , discovery yachts etc. but the point is this failure is extremely rare across all types of boats. Bringing it up is disingenuous.

I'd say stick built is better, but not necessarily from a "day 1" functional aspect. It's more from a longevity perspective. The interior won't necessarily work better, but a stick built interior is generally easier to make changes to over time, and easier to repair damage. As well as providing more ability to take things apart for access to hidden areas of the hull, etc. So while the interior itself may not necessarily be any better, the stick built boat will potentially have a longer practical lifespan.


I agree, rudder or keel failure is typically a design problem, not a construction problem. The better boats may take more abuse in those respects, but unless there's a glaring issue with how the boat is constructed, any boat used within its design limits should be fine in those respects.



Certain construction methods do have downsides. Glued in structural grids with a keel bolted right to the hull bottom (no stub) have 2 big flaws in my mind: the lack of a proper bilge, and they're hard to repair properly if damaged. If you whack the keel on something hard enough to do damage, a fiberglass keel stub with glassed in stringers in the hull can be repaired, even if an area has to be rebuilt entirely. With a glassed in grid and the keel bolted right to the hull, it's harder to make a repair that fits well with the original construction method and harder to be sure everything is really repaired back to 100%.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Well it’s not so altruistic.

The mass market builders require enormous capital investment , semi mechanised processes and try to remove expensive labour.

There is no evidence say a HR is lasting any longer than say a Beneteau , I’ve seen old versions of both with issues and equally one better then thd other.

The idea that say “ stick built” is better then prefabricated is more “ snobbery “ than real life engineering

Rudders and keels have fallen of high end designs , oysters , discovery yachts etc. but the point is this failure is extremely rare across all types of boats. Bringing it up is disingenuous.

High end products are both combinations of cost and “ brand positioning “ A rolls Royce and a Toyota will happily deliver the kids to school equally a Morris and a Beneteau will deliver its crew across oceans too.

Why is the rolls bought , partly a display of status and wealth , partly because the value of money is relative to certain people and partly because people appreciate fine design BUT have the cash to pay for it.

A small manufacturer these days has no choice but to aim for the “ high end “ they can’t invest in high tech automation , so items must be hand built. If you employ lots of labour in western countries that cost will dominate your build costs. To recover that you have to go “ upmarket “ hence we get “ high end “ boats

Hence high end yachts are both “ fashion “ and wealth symbols as well as finely crafted showcases of boat building.

Sadly the future for very small volume have crafted boats is bleak as prices are now outstretching any likely buyers ability. There is only so much a 40 footer Is worth irrespective of how many skilled hands put it together. This has forced some builders into larger designs but it’s a perilous place.

Agree there’s definitely a happy medium where really high end boats have an excess of handcrafting that adds tons of cost.

But, I have to say the interior of my 35 year old boat is still perfect- no chipped veneer, creaky floors, loosening hinges, doors that don’t latch. And all bulkheads lockers, seats, shelves, etc are fully glassed into hull- so structurally I believe my boat will last indefinitely. And no deck leaks as port lights and hatches, genoa track are all well attached and bonded with higher quality techniques.

Having chartered and spent time on the current generation of mass production boats I’d have to say there’s a bit of erring on side of cheapness. I have ikea furniture at home but not in “high wear” item, and I expect it to last 1 decade if lucky.