Quote:
Originally Posted by Q Xopa
OK, a bit off topic again, but seeing it is being mentioned.
All true about the usual way UPSs are utilized.
Now picture a UPS with a giant battery, not just big enough for a few minutes until you can shut your household PC down, or start up your back up generator online.
So whatever your normal AC loads you want to run, whether it be Air conditioners (this is obviously a big set up), iPad charges, induction cook tops or whatever. if you have big enough Invertors and battery capacity you can run all these devices.
Realistically this is going to be a Lithium bank, with big invertors etc
Obviously the batteries will need re charging at some point. This where our shore power or AC or DC generator come in. In this case if we use a multi voltage charger, like say Sterling AC batt chargers. PS I'm in no way affiliated.
The advantage of doing it this way are-
1. Good Invertors are nice 'clean' power, voltage and frequency stable not like most shore power or generators, and
2. The battery bank will absorb and smooth many transient loads and surges.
Taking the concept a little further of 'Internationalizing' a global cruising boat electrical system. The US 110V standards will specify larger wires than 240V European. Obviously 110V appliances need more Amps and therefore larger wires for a similar powered appliance. Worthwhile considering for those of us doing elec sys refits.
Back to generators, the usual answer is to size it to your load. So an idling DC generator, to keep it quiet. Most Generator shops will tell us to get a smaller generator that works harder closer to it's designed operating load range. Of course it will be noisy because it working harder than the bigger idling one. Hmm, again not the desired result. Ideally we need to match the diesels load and RPMs and the Generator capacity as closely as we can to our requirements.
I wouldn't get too caught up on things not being ideal. Operate the way you want to. We dont want be a slave to our machines, they are expendable for our purpose. Many, not just cruisers, but indeed the majority of the population abuse their machines every which way and get away with it for the most part quite fine, in their blissful ignorance. The trouble for us that we know too much for our own good. Its a burden. Just me being a bit too pedantic pointing out the ideal, sorry. It's not a perfect world we live in.
I just like to learn from you guys on here.
I would just run your generator slowly and quietly.
As another little aside, the old Lister CS single cylinder 9 hp big tall green Diesels with 2 heavy spoke wheel flywheels. These Diesels ran for ever, some literally non stop for decades. They ran at around 700 RPM. This is the concept you need. Practically however space and weight wise this is not a viable option, but seeing the question was asked.
Keep the good ideas and dialogue coming.
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[/QUOTE] a bit off topic again, but seeing it is being mentioned.
I donīt think so
[/QUOTE] All true about the usual way UPSs are utilized.
Now picture a UPS with a giant battery, not just big enough for a few minutes until you can shut your household PC down, or start up your back up generator online.
So whatever your normal AC loads you want to run, whether it be Air conditioners (this is obviously a big set up),
iPad charges, induction cook tops or whatever. if you have big enough Invertors and battery capacity you can run all these devices.
[/QUOTE] Realistically this is going to be a
Lithium bank, with big invertors etc
Yes thatīs right. I think You captured the concept.
Itīs designing the whole energy system around the UPS and not around the gen. No inverter mambo jambo on the generating side only on the consumer side where I have AC and DC demand anyhow. Then the gen is only a component and one of the energy generating choices I have in the system. As a component for battery charging the gen only needs to produce raw and brutal
power amps for rapid charging of the LFP in the shortest time posible. That has a lot of advantages over running the AC gen everytime I use a high demand AC consumer. Most boats allready have an inverter. So why not using a bigger inverter instead of a bigger gen ?
With a big LFP bank we can choose the moment for charging for convenience.
UPS tech is proven in all kinds of applications. So why not use it. Itīs
cheap.
For many small boats it would be very practical to use what they call a
solar generator.... but fact is. This is actually a UPS with extended runtime!!!!
You can buy a complete pack with small LFP for 500-1500$.
With a big inverter we eliminate all the soft start components for high consumers that otherwise also require a bigger gen with more capacity.
Less components = less maintanance and problems with trouble shooting= less $$$
[/QUOTE] Obviously the
batteries will need recharging at some point. This is where our shore power or AC or DC generator come in.
Letīs keep it simple. All internal forms of charging are DC less shore power. The UPS will detect if needed
[/QUOTE]The advantage of doing it this way are-
1. Good Invertors are nice 'clean' power, voltage and frequency stable not like most shore power or generators
2. The battery bank will absorb and smooth many transient loads and surges.
MMM YES PLEASE.... ALL OF THEM
[/QUOTE] Taking the concept a little further of 'Internationalizing' a global cruising
boat electrical system.....
Thatīs right. Letīs add on a multi voltage
charger and we are international. No more adapting the boat to shore power and lousy installations in third world
marinas etc.
Now we can even buy a boat where ever and keep the existing
electrical system including all the
appliances and what not ?
[/QUOTE] Most Generator shops will tell us .............
Yes unfortunatly, they do, but I try to keep an open mind.
I need a practical system and not just a generator.
I believe most boats could get away with a true high output alternator like the ECO-TECH on the main engine. The key is finding the sweet spot of the alternator running full load on low RPM without causing damage while cruising at higher RPM.
Ideal would be producing enough charge during the time it needs to get the
water heater to temperatur. But I believe, even that can be done much more efficient with
solar.
[/QUOTE] ColdEH
Marine
Next built..... driving two Eco-Tech alternators at 6000 RPM
I asume he has experience with the sweet spot of this particular alternator. But what I could not find is the info 6000 RPM at what RPM of the engine ? In case of driving with the main engine this would be a variable. Maybe that is why he wants to use 2 alternators. Even so that is still a lot everything then a
classic generator and a lot cheaper.
[/QUOTE] I wouldn't get too caught up on things not being ideal.
Well, actually the tech and components exist. I think itīs just a question of the right mix
[/QUOTE] I would just run your generator slowly and quietly.
Hahah, at this stage we do. We are generating the ideal generator very quietly and slow. Letīs wait and see the final conclusions.
[/QUOTE] As another little aside, the old Lister CS
single cylinder 9 hp big tall green Diesels with 2 heavy spoke
wheel flywheels........
Haha, the good old
classic from the ancient times. Thatīs when You needed a
new boat for the engine and not like today....a new engine for the boat. There are still a lotīs of happy Listers around. They use them for agriculture in
Asia and
India for all kinds of applications
Keep the good ideas and dialogue coming.[/QUOTE]
Ohh Yes, I think there are a lot of things that have to be analized before we can answer....WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??