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Old 11-11-2017, 04:06   #166
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Originally Posted by Q Xopa View Post
Yes those numbers look like that is good Amps value for your $s.

Perhaps some others might have better answers for us about some of the questions I would ask about that, and indeed all, Alternators-

Small case Alternator, realistically how many Amps could you normally want to suck outta them, particularly sustained. I hear 100 ish is generally accepted to be their limit, or maybe a little more, before they start to melt?
200A x 12v is 2.4kW. Not allowing for inefficiencies thats around 3.2 HP. That sounds to me perhaps a little ambitious from a single V belt?
Internal regulator, which dont have much scope for customizing charging profiles.
Internal rectifier and regulator that is adding to and in around the hot end of the operation?
Im not sure how quick you would have to spin it to get that output. You might run into limits on pulley sizes to gear it up to that extent running an engine at 1200 RPM. Usually there is only so much space around your crank pulley to increase its size. Then if you try to get your speed increase from going smaller on the Alt pulley you can limit the grip and torque transmission capability.

I might be wrong about all, or some of this. All of this may for a cost be overcome.

There is a lot to be said for commonly available, mass produced part. Easy to source, cheap to buy and easy to get fixed.
2.4kW is more than "a little ambitious" from a single belt. I get 2.5kW out of my large-case Leese Neville (nominally more) and even dual belts require watching and tending and have to be replaced fairly often. I think serpentine belts would be better.

For regulation, I wonder if anyone is using one of these:

https://sterling-power.com/collectio...ers-up-to-400a

This seems to me like a really good approach to the problem.
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:44   #167
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Originally Posted by Q Xopa View Post
These things are wound for very low speed operation, perhaps too low for our purposes?
how could that be?

With direct drive yes, but pulleys can set any ratio?

AFAIC lower the better
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Old 11-11-2017, 07:55   #168
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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2.4kW is more than "a little ambitious" from a single belt. I get 2.5kW out of my large-case Leese Neville (nominally more) and even dual belts require watching and tending and have to be replaced fairly often. I think serpentine belts would be better.

For regulation, I wonder if anyone is using one of these:

https://sterling-power.com/collectio...ers-up-to-400a

This seems to me like a really good approach to the problem.
Yes, also Balmar's MC-614, accommodates user custom setpoint profiles, necessary for LFP, very flexible de-rating.

But I believe the Eco-Tech would not accommodate it, the Sterlings are designed to add-on an existing VR setup, so that may be OK, but I think don't have custom setpoints.

The Sterling "batt-to-batt" do though, and Charles has told me his 180A version is coming out "real soon now".

_____
Rule of thumb, single belt gets too stressed around 60-80A continuous, certainly 100A go to at least double.

But yes serpentine best for high amps
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Old 11-11-2017, 08:56   #169
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Yes, also Balmar's MC-614, accommodates user custom setpoint profiles, necessary for LFP, very flexible de-rating.

But I believe the Eco-Tech would not accommodate it, the Sterlings are designed to add-on an existing VR setup, so that may be OK, but I think don't have custom setpoints.

The Sterling "batt-to-batt" do though, and Charles has told me his 180A version is coming out "real soon now".

_____
Rule of thumb, single belt gets too stressed around 60-80A continuous, certainly 100A go to at least double.

But yes serpentine best for high amps
Yes Eco-Tech use there own regulator . You can not use an external one. It is there design that blends a PMA with a regular alternator that yields such great low rpm power.
I have many friends with boats that have large belt driven alternators , the maintenance and the amount of belt dust is astonishing! I wanted no part of that, therefor a direct coupled system was the only way to go for me and the Eco-Tech was the only alternator that made real power at 1800 RPM . I do have alternators on the main engine and the generator but they are only used to tension the belt on there water pumps . They are not even wired to anything .

Regards John
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:00   #170
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

Can the Eco-Tech's output voltage be customized? I hold LFP charge sources to max 13.8V.

If not, I'd need to add a pricey big-amp Sterling B2B to the mix.
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Old 11-11-2017, 09:12   #171
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Can the Eco-Tech's output voltage be customized? I hold LFP charge sources to max 13.8V.

If not, I'd need to add a pricey big-amp Sterling B2B to the mix.
Absolutely ! I talked to the designer for quite some time . This guy is a real tech head and very smart. He built me a regulator with an adjustable cut off voltage set point dial wired right on the regulator for 50$ , did it in a week . I have mine set at 14 volts for my lifepo4 bank . There is no current tail off at the end , it just shuts off . Mine is adjustable from 13.2 to 14.5 volts .

Regards John
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:43   #172
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

Q Xopa's comments are spot on. Trying to run a 200A alternator with a single belt guarantees that belt life will be VERY short. 200 amps out of a case frame that size with a stock cooling fan means the alternator will overheat very rapidly and will then chop its charging rate to a reduced level, typical automotive overheat protection. Quality? I wish you luck. And the internal regulation means very ineficient charging.

What we are looking for in this thread is a charge source that can maintain high amp output for long periods of time. That means large cases, large high efficiency fans, big diode stacks that are very well cooled and enough belts (if you're using belt drive) to have a long reliable life. On anything much over 100 amps that means two V-belts unless you are running a multigroove belt.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:48   #173
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Q Xopa's comments are spot on. Trying to run a 200A alternator with a single belt guarantees that belt life will be VERY short.
If you mean plain V-belt, it may not spin the alt at all if the 150+A load comes online suddenly, it just can't transfer that amount of torque, belt tension would need to be way over spec, stuff breaks
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:55   #174
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

Also beware, lots of new amps sold cheap on eBay are very poor quality knockoffs.

Better of with Leece Neville secondhand, get it reco'd at a reputable local shop.

4000 series 300A and over, fit a cover/brush holder kit, converts to use external VR like MC-614 and Bob's yer uncle.

But needs higher rpm.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:16   #175
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Absolutely ! I talked to the designer for quite some time . This guy is a real tech head and very smart. He built me a regulator with an adjustable cut off voltage set point dial wired right on the regulator for 50$ , did it in a week . I have mine set at 14 volts for my lifepo4 bank . There is no current tail off at the end , it just shuts off . Mine is adjustable from 13.2 to 14.5 volts .

Regards John
That's great news, would like to apprentice with someone like that for a while.
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Old 12-11-2017, 18:01   #176
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Q Xopa's comments are spot on. Trying to run a 200A alternator with a single belt guarantees that belt life will be VERY short. 200 amps out of a case frame that size with a stock cooling fan means the alternator will overheat very rapidly and will then chop its charging rate to a reduced level, typical automotive overheat protection. Quality? I wish you luck. And the internal regulation means very ineficient charging.

What we are looking for in this thread is a charge source that can maintain high amp output for long periods of time. That means large cases, large high efficiency fans, big diode stacks that are very well cooled and enough belts (if you're using belt drive) to have a long reliable life. On anything much over 100 amps that means two V-belts unless you are running a multigroove belt.
I absolutly agree. A quality raw and brutal Amp source we can reley on in the marine enviroment. When we are anchored somewhere in nowhere land there is no Ebay and Amazon. There is only You and Your tool box.
I rather spend a dew dollars more and go a little oversize

The same goes for the belt. I dont believe this kind of torque can be handled with V-belts. That needs at least a serpentine belt of 6 groves and the more the better.

Does anybody have a cheep source for industrial serpentine pullies ?
Some of them pullies we get offered with the high output marine alternators cost 400 $ and more. The typical rip off when something has a marine sticker on it.
But matter of fact is those serpentine belts are not made specifically for the marine enviroment.
So the only thing we have to do is find the corresponding pullies that drive those belts for a reasonable price.

I am not sure but I guess the belts have an advantage over gears.
The belts make no noise
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:18   #177
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
If you mean plain V-belt, it may not spin the alt at all if the 150+A load comes online suddenly, it just can't transfer that amount of torque, belt tension would need to be way over spec, stuff breaks
interesting part for me is my motor is started with a dynostarter and dual vee belt.
The dual vee seems to handle the torque needed to turn my engine over.
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Old 12-11-2017, 19:41   #178
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

Are you saying you expect that required cranking torque to be as high as that produced to service your usual working loads?
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Old 12-11-2017, 20:18   #179
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Are you saying you expect that required cranking torque to be as high as that produced to service your usual working loads?
yes I do believe the torque needed to turn a 28 horse volvo from stop running to be a bit more than the 200 amp alternator that I am considering ( it would have been turned with a single vee belt on the late '70's cop cars that used them on a daily basis. )
I will be adding an auto adjusting belt pto so I can disengage it at my leisure. ( when starting engine or needing full HP for some reason.)
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Old 12-11-2017, 20:24   #180
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Re: WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

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Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine View Post
Absolutely ! I talked to the designer for quite some time . This guy is a real tech head and very smart. He built me a regulator with an adjustable cut off voltage set point dial wired right on the regulator for 50$ , did it in a week . I have mine set at 14 volts for my lifepo4 bank . There is no current tail off at the end , it just shuts off . Mine is adjustable from 13.2 to 14.5 volts .

Regards John

I would also hold at 13,8 Volt but it seems this guy is smart if he can built a regulator with adjustable voltage for 50$.
Obviously he does not make his money selling regulators like others.
I always like the regulators that are not OVER regulated.
Most likely they are easier to fix.
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