What if someone has tied to your private mooring

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Any citation/reference/gov't link for that Mike. I've never heard of it.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...35/page-1.html

[LoudMusic]

I feel like there's an unnecessarily high tech solution to this. And I like the idea of that

A very heavily weighted electric winch on the seabed could spool up the mooring chain and line attached to the pick-up-ball for the mooring. It would need a substantial battery and some kind of recharging system that is activated by water flow.

Then some simple electronics that allows you to trigger the winch to wind up or let out line. It would have to be sound activated likely, as it's my understanding R/F doesn't travel underwater.

When not in use the winch would wind the pick-up-ball down to the seabed. When the boat comes near, the captain can press a button to emit the correct tones and the winch will release the spool, allowing the pick-up-ball to float to the surface.

Perfect solution! Now give me $50,000 and I'll build you one.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Any citation/reference/gov't link for that Mike. I've never heard of it.

I’m pretty sure I read this buried in one of the laws the govern navigable waterway … I’ll try and find it again.

Ah, I see groundtackle beat me to it.

I don’t see the single mooring restriction here though … I’m pretty sure there is a requirement to show the mooring is active, which results in allowing only one per person, but maybe I’m misremembering this part.

[groundtackle]

Mike, I seem to recall something about 'only one per person' thing too.

Our laws / rules are simplistic and not enforced. In my backyard it's beyond control, boats and moorings everywhere and that will introduce some new regs.
I have no problem with occasional usage but I've had a few issues with full time squatters on my mooring, annoying. I row around and introduced myself to folks living aboard, nicely explain the inability to use my own mooring. Eventually they get the message and leave. The community keeps people off in my absence.

Chris.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by LoudMusic

I feel like there's an unnecessarily high tech solution to this. And I like the idea of that

A very heavily weighted electric winch on the seabed could spool up the mooring chain and line attached to the pick-up-ball for the mooring. It would need a substantial battery and some kind of recharging system that is activated by water flow.

Then some simple electronics that allows you to trigger the winch to wind up or let out line. It would have to be sound activated likely, as it's my understanding R/F doesn't travel underwater.

When not in use the winch would wind the pick-up-ball down to the seabed. When the boat comes near, the captain can press a button to emit the correct tones and the winch will release the spool, allowing the pick-up-ball to float to the surface.

Perfect solution! Now give me $50,000 and I'll build you one.

Or a better solution, when they tie to it I could activate it and pull their boat under. That's entertainment.

Let me explain it from my side.

There are about 15 moorings most owned by the resort, some by emergency services, national parks etc.. there is 32klms of West facing coast on the island all ideal for anchoring in an easterly. The resort charge $15 per day for theirs so they all jump on mine first knowing full well they shouldn't. There's a guy on it now who went straight passed all the others and tied to mine, unloaded his kayak and paddled off to the resort.

I was issued a licence for the only private mooring because it is in front of my house. It is my garage. For this privilege I paid about the price of a garage to have it installed and a small ongoing anual fee plus I have to maintain it (certified annually). Now these lovely people come in boats oversized for it and/or tie on incorrectly and damage it. Not all but enough that I need to repair it regularly. One guy tested it by backing up his huge motor cruiser just to see if it will hold them, he had no idea what it is rated to so he tested it, if it had broken, what do you think he would do. Oh well it wasn't right for him. Untie and move on.

I do not see it as different than someone coming along to your house who does not believe you should be able to own a piece of land that everyone should be entitled to use and parking their Mack truck in your garage knocking part of the wall down as they do, then unloading the scooter and head off to the pub so when you get home there is no one there to ask to move.

You sit and wait for large chunks of the day waiting for when they do show up.

All this unicorn and rainbow crap about nice polite conversations and apologies and meeting nice new people is only about 50% the case at best, and if I didn't try so hard to be nice about it I think the other half would become instant arseholes. Nice considerate people don't park in other people's garages.....

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

Or a better solution, when they tie to it I could activate it and pull their boat under. That's entertainment.

Let me explain it from my side.

There are about 15 moorings most owned by the resort, some by emergency services, national parks etc.. there is 32klms of West facing coast on the island all ideal for anchoring in an easterly. The resort charge $15 per day for theirs so they all jump on mine first knowing full well they shouldn't. There's a guy on it now who went straight passed all the others and tied to mine, unloaded his kayak and paddled off to the resort.

I was issued a licence for the only private mooring because it is in front of my house. It is my garage. For this privilege I paid about the price of a garage to have it installed and a small ongoing anual fee plus I have to maintain it (certified annually). Now these lovely people come in boats oversized for it and/or tie on incorrectly and damage it. Not all but enough that I need to repair it regularly. One guy tested it by backing up his huge motor cruiser just to see if it will hold them, he had no idea what it is rated to so he tested it, if it had broken, what do you think he would do. Oh well it wasn't right for him. Untie and move on.

I do not see it as different than someone coming along to your house who does not believe you should be able to own a piece of land that everyone should be entitled to use and parking their Mack truck in your garage knocking part of the wall down as they do, then unloading the scooter and head off to the pub so when you get home there is no one there to ask to move.

You sit and wait for large chunks of the day waiting for when they do show up.

All this unicorn and rainbow crap about nice polite conversations and apologies and meeting nice new people is only about 50% the case at best, and if I didn't try so hard to be nice about it I think the other half would become instant arseholes. Nice considerate people don't park in other people's garages.....

IMHO a perfectly valid point, perhaps a small stainless plaque very firmly fastened to the top of the buoy indicating that the mooring is in fact a private mooring, however any private vessel is welcome to use it if it is vacant, at the very reasonable rate of , say.....$100.00 per 24 hours or part thereof.
Just have to paddle out and collect the money.

[Alan Mighty]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

There are about 15 moorings most owned by the resort, some by emergency services, national parks etc.. there is 32klms of West facing coast on the island all ideal for anchoring in an easterly. The resort charge $15 per day for theirs so they all jump on mine first knowing full well they shouldn't. There's a guy on it now who went straight passed all the others and tied to mine, unloaded his kayak and paddled off to the resort.

How does Tangalooma Resort police/implement its mooring fees?

The resort makes public, on its website and in printed literature, that use of its moorings must be arranged in advance (by phone or email). And they give details about how payment can be made.

Could you not do similarly?

For sure, you don't have what the resort has: an office to demand and accept fees from visitors who are staying at the resort and using its moorings.

Could you not reach an agreement with the resort to include your mooring in its management procedures?

Or at least give public notice (by website and mooring flag or sign on your mooring ball) about costs and penalties?

And then followup with procedures (backed up with photographs of boats, searches of the state boat registration number database etc) to collect fees, monetary compensation for damage, etc.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Here in NSW, Aus the mooring apparatus is owned by me, the lease on the spot is paid by me and the mandatory equipment service is paid by me. I kind of view it as my mooring.

If you owned it you wouldn't have to lease the public land/water from the state where your equipment lies.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Paul L

If you owned it you wouldn't have to lease the public land/water from the state where your equipment lies.

All right smart ass, whilst ever the lease is current (that is paid) I have the right to exclusively occupy the location for the period of the lease.
There, does that make you feel better.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

........

.......

I do not see it as different than someone coming along to your house who does not believe you should be able to own a piece of land that everyone should be entitled to use and parking their Mack truck in your garage knocking part of the wall down as they do, then unloading the scooter and head off to the pub so when you get home there is no one there to ask to move.

............

Dave
You are in a really crowded weekend spot next to a big city with tons of what we might call yahoos, you might call punters, so its pretty easy to understand your frustration. It also sounds like you use the mooring a lot, something that is not true about a lot of other moorings. That said, I don't think your analogy of someone parking there Mack truck on your property is all that valid. The navigatable waters are public commons, at least they are in the US. Less so in Australia where they dredge out canals and lakes directly attached to naviagable waters and put up no trespassing signs on the canal waterway.

So public common areas are for the comon good, like town centers, parks, etc. On occasion areas of these get leased out, say for grazing, but in general they are public. Taking up practically all the publicly available anchoring and replacing it with private, single user moorings is esentially giving away the public land/water to some single lucky individual. I'm not saying that is the case where you are, as you can anchor near by (with not great protection).

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

All right smart ass, whilst ever the lease is current (that is paid) I have the right to exclusively occupy the location for the period of the lease.
There, does that make you feel better.

Nothing smart ass about it. The point is you are leasing public space. It is not some inherent right, just a lease to use it.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Nothing smart ass about it. The point is you are leasing public space. It is not some inherent right, just a lease to use it.

Materially there's no difference; Dave has the right of exclusive use. It's his mooring.

Dave, you've got a few phone calls in your future I reckon. To Maritime Safety and the Police. I'd also be noting the registrations of those on your mooring, especially as it is being damaged.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Nothing smart ass about it. The point is you are leasing public space. It is not some inherent right, just a lease to use it.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree, it's my understanding that when one enters into a lease arrangement, be it for a mooring position, a residential or commercial position one has exclusive use of the described leasehold for as long as the lease is current. The fact that it is leased from the state is irrelevant. To argue otherwise would be to suggest, for example, that those who lease public housing from the state have no rights of exclusive use and should accept the use of that housing by all that wish to occupy it. The same can be said for the commercial space leased to a plethora of small businesses.

[Dave_S]

Unfortunately I can't allow any other boat other than my own on the mooring it is leased to me only as a single vessel mooring registered to my registration number etched into the bouy. So I can't charge for it's use.

The sign may do the trick though with a $100 fine per day, I could set up a camera and film them 24hrs 7 days.

I am worried that someone will damage it, the next bloke who steals it, washes up on the beach and sues me. In this incredibly ridiculous world we live in he will probably win.

Paul, the govt lease crown land all the time. Surely that's no different ?

There are vacant spots all around me right now, it does get busy, Xmas, Australia day, and Easter, but not choked up. I'm about 1k from the wrecks and there is lots of room, the rest of the time there is usually less than 10 boats within a couple of Klms.

[tp12]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

I am worried that someone will damage it, the next bloke who steals it, washes up on the beach and sues me. In this incredibly ridiculous world we live in he will probably win.

If I was you, in addition to calling Maritime Safety and the Police, I'd consider keeping a diary, with pictures, of the boats that moor on it and what they do. If they back down hard on it, damage it etc.