What if someone has tied to your private mooring

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Ironman and Cadence, probably Franziska too,- where are your own vessels kept while your mooring, dock, etc. are occupied by "guest" boats belonging to or at least operated by unknown and unavailable persons?

Perhaps you would share the exact locations of your facilities and the alternates so the users of this Forum could partake if they desired while in the area.

[clownfishsydney]

What is not understood here is that Queensland (and NSW) have very, very strict rules about moorings. You cannot just put one where you like, you need to apply for approval. Generally they are only permitted in designated mooring areas. One of the conditions is that only the nominated boat can moor there, that is, even my second boat cannot use the mooring my yacht is on unless I seek prior approval.

To quote from the Maritime Safety Queensland brochure on moorings, "Only the buoy mooring authority holder’s nominated ship is permitted to be moored on the mooring." This means someone cannot legally use the mooring even for 24 hours. The same rule applies in NSW. Obviously this is hard to enforce, so yes, people do sometimes use other people's moorings.

It would also be illegal I suspect to anchor in a mooring field as the moorings are generally so close together this would be dangerous. The easiest way to fix any problem is to contact the relevant authority if someone is using your mooring or anchored too close.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

You seriously equate using a mooring in water no one owns to joyriding in another home?

Not sure of the person to whom the reply above is directed, but the OP referred to a "private" mooring, and I missed a reference to "joyriding." I've always understood the term joyriding as a crime involving the theft of a vehicle where the criminal did not intend to permanently deprive the rightful "owner" of possession of the property The "permanent" part was a key to theft, so joyriding was for a very short time not a crime. For many years, both versions have been crimes, at least in some parts of the civilized world. At sea, at anchor, at a dock, in a slip, or moored, if someone attempted to steal my home, in a manner unauthorized by law, and I had the ability to stop them by any means I would do so, even perhaps means not authorized by law.

[Dave_S]

Originally Posted by 0urh

That is one very good mooring, rated at 70kn. Could you give some details of the mooring eg. block size or screw mooring/chain size etc..

The problem in a storm is if other boats around you (on calm weather moorings) break free and/or drag into your boat causing damage. Hard to protect your boat from non-caring (often uninsured) boat owners in storm situations.

Apologies, I looked at the email it is 60kn winds but he calculated it at 70. It is 1.5t as weighed under water. Made up of old train wheels welded together and they partially submerge in the sand.

As far as other boats hitting me, that's a risk that can not be eliminated wherever I go. But if I am anywhere but on that mooring except travelling or in a marina I won't have insurance. If I move with a storm warning current I am not covered, if it is a named storm I'm not covered anywhere. It's very rare to have a named storm this far South.

It's more of a donation than insurance really.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by clownfishsydney

To quote from the Maritime Safety Queensland brochure on moorings, "Only the buoy mooring authority holder’s nominated ship is permitted to be moored on the mooring." This means someone cannot legally use the mooring even for 24 hours. The same rule applies in NSW. Obviously this is hard to enforce, so yes, people do sometimes use other people's moorings.

An Unfriendly, poor use of facilities, causing excess moorings to be laid, damaging to the environment Law

[SV DestinyAscen]

Yes it was meant for you - although judging by your response about joy riding it seems like you like to fixate on details and miss the big picture.


Moving on and unsubscribe.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

An Unfriendly, poor use of facilities, causing excess moorings to be laid, damaging to the environment Law

But it stops people from getting multiple mooring permits and commercialising them

[JPA Cate]

Not acceptable for Steve S. to move someone else's boat, have to get the authorities to do it.. Besides, if he moved it, he would incur liability for whatever happened to it, there will be enough trouble for many people even if the authorities will: they, too, are concerned about liability.

Mike, part of the problem is that here in Oz, the places we've been, the moorings were here before marinas were part of the picture, and there are not enough marina berths for all the boats. There might be a thousand boats moored on the Pittwater, where we are now, and 4 medium sized marinas, and one small one, all chockablock. The boat owner has to be able to put his boat somewhere before he goes home. These people are not liveabord cruisers, in the main. Also in Oz, private parties own land only to the high tide mark. The sea bed belongs to all, but is controlled. I don't know how it is in Canada, but it is very different from the US west coast. Maybe Maine has moorings rather than many marinas?

Ann

On edit: Of course the proliferation of moorings means less space for people to anchor who need the space, too, but the moorings keep filling up that space. Meanwhile, beureaucracies that are in charge of water safety and habitat also fight for control, and limit where one can anchor, imo both for aggregating more power and for environmental reasons and that seems to be the way of the world.

[knockabout]

if you touch the vessel you are then responsible for it / it's best to calmly contact the owner and ask what the f / maybe your best mate with a new boat or someone failed to pull their oversized gigantic anchor out of the clay and temporarily borrowed your mooring to dinghy ashore and buy a sensibly sized replacement

[DumnMad]

An Unfriendly, poor use of facilities, causing excess moorings to be laid, damaging to the environment Law

Originally Posted by StuM

But it stops people from getting multiple mooring permits and commercialising them

Nah. Other simple ways of doing this.
I think its a law created by the water police to justify their new boat and trips around the bay on a sunny day. Now if they used that boat to respond to mooring owners concerns they could still have their day trips but it would be blowing a gale.
Human nature, the law fits the law writer 1st and taxpayer 2nd.

[dfelsent]

I'm in Marblehead. 2000+ (yes two thousand plus) moorings in an area about 6000 feet by 2000 feet. That's an average of a mooring every 75 feet or so.

Regulated? Yes. Like boats are near like boats to keep the swing similar. Mooring weights (they are all dead weight here) are regulated. So are chain sizes and inspection schedules.

In a bad storm your neighbor with a poor mooring is a hazard.

Barely enough room to navigate between boats at times. Sometimes your boat bumps an empty neighbors mooring if they are not on it and the bottom chains are not stretched in the same direction.

Stranger on my mooring? Call my Yacht club Dockmaster or the Harbormaster. Let them figure it out.

If I go away for more than two nights I let my club know and they will let others use it. Required.

Most of the time there are moorings for visitors available.

[Island Time O25]

I just don't get it how flippantly some people dismiss trespass on someone else's property. Yes, the mooring may be in the public waters. So what? It is still privately owned, unless owned by the city or the state. Your automobile is parked on a public road. So is it acceptable for someone to get inside to keep out of the rain? Or to board your boat to use your bimini top as an effective sunshade? When did we as society loose all common sense? I understand the emergency thing and just as commandeering one's vehicle in a true emergency may be grudgingly acceptable so is the grabbing of the mooring to get one's boat out of immediate danger. But beyond that - no way. Why should the mooring owner/renter be inconvenienced so that someone else may save some $$ on dock charges? And that's essentially what it boils down to - unwillingness of some people to pay their own way together with their heightened sense of entitlement to trespass on other people's property and feel self righteous to boot.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Mike, part of the problem is that here in Oz, the places we've been, the moorings were here before marinas were part of the picture, and there are not enough marina berths for all the boats. There might be a thousand boats moored on the Pittwater, where we are now, and 4 medium sized marinas, and one small one, all chockablock. The boat owner has to be able to put his boat somewhere before he goes home. These people are not liveabord cruisers, in the main. Also in Oz, private parties own land only to the high tide mark. The sea bed belongs to all, but is controlled. I don't know how it is in Canada, but it is very different from the US west coast. Maybe Maine has moorings rather than many marinas?

Yeah, I agree that in high use areas a mooring field is a more effective and equitable use of publics space. In those areas it is preferable to have a well maintained mooring field since it allows for more boaters. And I can appreciate why a local boater would want mooring in their prime sailing grounds. Its those circumstances where moorings are placed in uncrowded anchorages such that they effectively block large sections of the anchor swing space.

I think private moorings should be located at the edges of anchorages; in spots that would be hard or marginal to anchor in anyway due to restricted swing room. Most private mooring owners are respectful in their mooring placement, but I’ve come across a fair number that seem to be places as if they were anchors.

Canadian law is similar to Oz in that private property rights typically end at the high water mark. The sea bed is publicly owned: owned by the Crown. Canadians have the right to have one mooring for personal use, subject to certain specifications including displaying "in a conspicuous location and in a permanent and legible manner, the name, address and telephone number of its owner”.

I’m always amused by the indignity some people show if anyone dares suggest there is a limit to private property rights. These rights, like all others, are subject to limitations. In Canada one such limitation is that a mooring must be removed "if during any two-year period, no vessel has moored to the works.”

In other words, use it or lose it.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

In other words, use it or lose it.

It's a similar rule where we moor. One is allowed one year w/o a vessel on the mooring. And HM encourages and actually requires I think that for that year the mooring be rented to someone on the list for a spot. No set amount of rent if I understand it correctly but by custom it is whatever it cost to maintainX2 or some such. And to prevent people from putting cheap dingies as place holders HM will move the mooring permit to an area depth of which which corresponds to the dinghy's draft.

While theoretically I also lament the loss of public anchoring space to moorings I do realize that this is the only practical way to have many more vessels there than anchoring would allow. Not to mention safety issues, etc. And since the overall expenses are kept somewhat reasonable (boatwise speaking) it is a much lesser evil than having people stomp over each other after each day sail.

The less used or less visited harbors are of course another story and should not be taken over by moorings at the expense of anchoring room, lest we suspect the water authorities of greed and nimbyism.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yeah, I agree that in high use areas a mooring field is a more effective and equitable use of publics space. In those areas it is preferable to have a well maintained mooring field since it allows for more boaters. And I can appreciate why a local boater would want mooring in their prime sailing grounds. Its those circumstances where moorings are placed in uncrowded anchorages such that they effectively block large sections of the anchor swing space.

I think private moorings should be located at the edges of anchorages; in spots that would be hard or marginal to anchor in anyway due to restricted swing room. Most private mooring owners are respectful in their mooring placement, but I’ve come across a fair number that seem to be places as if they were anchors.

I think Canadian law is similar to Oz in that private property rights typically end at the high water mark. The sea bed is publicly owned: owned by the Crown. Canadians have the right to have one mooring for personal use, subject to certain specifications including displaying "in a conspicuous location and in a permanent and legible manner, the name, address and telephone number of its owner”.

I’m always amused by the indignity some people show if anyone dares suggest there is a limit to private property rights. These rights, like all others, are subject to limitations. In Canada one such limitation is that a mooring must be removed "if during any two-year period, no vessel has moored to the works.”

In other words, use it or lose it.

Mike, you pretty much hit the nail on the head, the only difference between here and Canada is that the authorities select the location of your mooring within the general area that you want, space and waitlist permitting.