What happened to the "small" "Affordable" cruisers?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The jib furler was invented to save the faint of heart having to make their way to the foredeck..
This has since expanded to furling mains for the even more faint hearted..

Hanked on sails were kind of fun in the warm water of the Canaries as a young soldier, along with the inevitable drenchings when green waves crashed over the bow. However, quickly wore off winter sailing in the English Channel when a sail change was needed at some godforsaken hour.

The furling main means I don't even have to leave the protection of the sprayhood to reef, perfect

Pete

[JimsCAL]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Even those with great salaries had mid twenties boats in the boomer days and they made do just like those of us that slept in the same bed as our siblings. Attitudes about a lot of things has changed including how we buy stuff.

As a boomer who started sailing in the 70s, there was another factor. Boats were expensive. There were very few inexpensive used boats. Most boats were new or only a few years old. My first boat was an 3 year old ODay 22 that I paid about $4000 for. That's about $25,000 in today's dollars! No way back then I could have afforded a new or slightly used 35 footer.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by djousset

40'+ behemoths? Or was there some other more "Scientific" reason behind it?""

40' = behemoth, that's funny

there is science involved, it's the science of comfort

Ever notice that on "big boat" threads it quickly becomes the "small boat" people defending their boat size. If you have a small boat and like it that's just fine, for you.

Also a "big boat" to small boat person who has a 30' boat is like 35'. But to a "big boat" person with a 40' boat boats don't get "big" till around 55'.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Secondshift

You simply run one down and the other up much like changing a hank on cept it slides in the track. We have a furler on our 26' and our 33' and I may add one to our 14.2. On the 26 we use a partially furled foam luff genny then usually go to reefed main only though we have used a storm jib on a removable solent rig .

The point was the tech makes it more practical and safer for less people to man a larger boat and it's a fact.

Do you use a windlass or is that for the lazy folk too? But certainly not an ELECTRIC one it has to be a manual. Am I right??

I just don't agree that the convenience is the lead driving factor in the absence of new build small cruisers. I stand by my original response in post #70. I'd opt for economics and diminished interest. If there was enough of a market someone would start punching them out. Catalina once closed the line for the C22 only later to be reissued as the 22 Sport. A modified plan on the same hull so she could race with her sisters. I think a furler was offered as an upgrade.

Best Regards

Really good points you make Secondshift, especially about the option of changing sails on a furling system. I've often thought that would a a good compromise.

And YOU DO agree that convenience (example roller furling and windlasses) is not the driving factor towards bigger boats. That is my point too, although maybe not as well stated.

Boat buyers didn't move to bigger boats because they had roller furling (even though it removes an objection). Bigger boats are sailable by anyone who wants to do it, even with out roller furling and to my way of thinking not much less inconvenient when you take into account the benefit one gets from having good sail shapes in the right size for the conditions.

It's like tiller jockey said, "People want more creature comforts, and ease of operation. Bigger is better." etc, AND more people have the money, AND, there are used boats available, AND keeping up with the joneses is surely a part of it ("look honey, those guys had washer and dryer and a RIB with a 25hp motor, and and and...") AND diminished interest (fewer happy go lucky adventurous souls who think it would be fun to sail around the world with out electricity or refrigeration).

But some of the "sport" has gone out of sailing, and that is sad.

[Fence Man]

Originally Posted by roam

Seems to sail uphill like a dream.

Unbelievably fast to skyward.

[TheLuckyone]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

... Ever notice that on "big boat" threads it quickly becomes the "small boat" people defending their boat size. If you have a small boat and like it that's just fine, for you.

Seems to be the opposite on this thread... but I'll agree with you on the latter.

Also a "big boat" to small boat person who has a 30' boat is like 35'. But to a "big boat" person with a 40' boat boats don't get "big" till around 55'.

There's always a bigger fish...

[Little Otter]

Originally Posted by Enfant Du Vent

Ahoy Little Otter:
I mentioned the problem of kids-college but now you've added an expense that makes that pale by comparison: "I fully intend to convince her to go cruising of vacations."
None of the posts have so far identified how much the wife's acceptance governed the selection of boat amenities and hence size!
L'Enfant du Vent
PS: My mother bought a picture once in Nantucket that showed an old 3 masted sailing ship and an elegantly dressed lady on the dock in front of it. The caption read, "To furnish a ship requireth much trouble, but to furnish a woman the charges are double."

Oh believe me I've already been down that road but she is amazing and even though she doesn't understand my obsession with the sea she still supports my dreams to circumnavigate. When my dad asked her what she thought of it she said "I'll kill him if i have to spend months in the ocean with this lunatic on a small boat. But I'll happily fly out and meet him once he gets to shore."

[Little Otter]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wonder why on internet forums people are so interested in what boat others choose?

For the same reason that we decide to sail over the horizon, Curiosity

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

40' = behemoth, that's funny

there is science involved, it's the science of comfort

Ever notice that on "big boat" threads it quickly becomes the "small boat" people defending their boat size. If you have a small boat and like it that's just fine, for you.

Also a "big boat" to small boat person who has a 30' boat is like 35'. But to a "big boat" person with a 40' boat boats don't get "big" till around 55'.

Yes, and we really should get away from the length in feet really being the primary determiner. Look at an Olson 30 and Rawson 30. Or a Santa Cruz 40 and a Hans Christain 41. Someone reading this thread who wasn't familiar with how different boats of equal length can be may get the wrong impression.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by jpendoley

Here’s the thing though-that 50 K is enough to price very many folks out of boating altogether. My first boat cost $6K. Had a wonderful time for seven years learning to sail and cruised her all over New England. The second boat was 10k and at 32 feet she seemed huge. I cruised with a family of four all over-40 gallons of water and ten pound ice blocks. Lived on it for five or six years too. My current Pearson 365 cost me 18K and she could take me much further-hot showers, ice cubes and forced hot air heat-undreamed of luxuries when I was Otters age. Buying small and within my means meant more time on the water, more self reliance and in the end, greater safety because I could fix anything on her. Go small and go now Otter. When you do trade up you will be in a better position to know what you need and why.

Very nicely presented, thanks for a great summary.

[Calif.Ted]

How many posts are there on this forum about people buying 40'-50' boats boats and asking how to put an outboard on it because they can't "afford" to fix the engine ?
Or we've never been on a boat but sold the house and bought a 45' steel hulled blue water boat to circumnavigate by the Northwest passage with family of 5 and 2 large dogs, how do you make the sails go up ?
It's the RV syndrome, if I can get a 40' one that just "needs a little work" for the same price as a well found 30' I'll get all that "sweat equity".

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

How many posts are there on this forum about people buying 40'-50' boats boats and asking how to put an outboard on it because they can't "afford" to fix the engine ? 1
Or we've never been on a boat but sold the house and bought a 45' steel hulled blue water boat to circumnavigate by the Northwest passage with family of 5 and 2 large dogs, how do you make the sails go up ? 0 really

What's the point far as the thread goes as I have seen at as many from people on 30' boats.

I for one am very very very happy for the people with $$$$$ who buy brand new 40'+ boats. If not for them most us could never have gotten our used 40'+ boat in a budget we could afford (no matter what the price is as it varies for each). I have only owned 2 boats, the first and smallest I got after 3 months of weekend sailing and it was a tiny 39'. The smallest boat I ever have sailed was 34' and what I learned from that was "I want a bigger boat".

[Enfant Du Vent]

Ahoy Little Otter:
Your replied:

Oh believe me I've already been down that road but she is amazing and even though she doesn't understand my obsession with the sea she still supports my dreams to circumnavigate. When my dad asked her what she thought of it she said "I'll kill him if i have to spend months in the ocean with this lunatic on a small boat. But I'll happily fly out and meet him once he gets to shore."


My first wife would totally concur with your wife's sentiments. Once, when I was having the 4 Man Avon life raft serviced, I had her come with me to see what it was like inflated--in a warm, dry shed. As we sat cross-legged and our knees touched she said, "If we ever really need it you'd better be a lot further away from me than this!"

[Secondshift]

Originally Posted by wingssail

But some of the "sport" has gone out of sailing, and that is sad.

I think not so much gone as separated. Some makers previously offering small "cruising" boats have turned to sport models. Even in the marketing as with Catalina and the C22 becoming the C22 sport. The C27 has seen a similar transformation becoming the C275 sport. Less cabin and more cockpit.

They've transformed to meet the market as have the 35'+ cruising boats.

When you're in love you'll figure it out. Right?

My first sailboat (that a human could ride on) was a Filip Viper 15' with Hood sails. We kept it through a progression of trailer boats until trading it out for a C 14.2. Wife's medical issues made the narrow beam, way over canvassed 15' impractical. The 14.2 is comparatively plush.

My point is, Little Otter, you'll figure it out. There are plenty of small blue water boats available now if that's the way you choose to go. Some people split it up over time. doing a leg and storing the boat in between.

I think few would argue the proven survivability of a Pacific Seacraft, Flicka, Dana or Orion. Though many would argue being slow and heavy vs being light and fast.

When you're in love you'll figure something out.

Tillerjockey's sail change comment made me think of Norris Hoyt's autobiography "Addicted to Sail" He referred to himself on foredeck crew as "deck apes" and made mention that "On Bolero, before dacron.... the genoa weighed 400 lbs dry, and never went up or down dry." Bolero was 73'. Hoyt chose his career to cater to his sailing addiction.

We have it so easy now with all our gadgets and with them
I hope to sail however I can for the rest of my life. I'm certain I'll figure something out.

Best Regards

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

What's the point far as the thread goes as I have seen at as many from people on 30' boats.

I for one am very very very happy for the people with $$$$$ who buy brand new 40'+ boats. If not for them most us could never have gotten our used 40'+ boat in a budget we could afford (no matter what the price is as it varies for each). I have only owned 2 boats, the first and smallest I got after 3 months of weekend sailing and it was a tiny 39'. The smallest boat I ever have sailed was 34' and what I learned from that was "I want a bigger boat".

That the point I was making about the "extra 50k", I was referring of course to new boats. The new boat market determines what gets made.

In the very late 1990s and 2000s there was a dramatic increase in the production of 40-50 foot boats at much cheaper prices than before. Those got bought, production of 30-footers died out, and hence here we are with the second-hand market full of production 40-footers and very little good stuff smaller than that.

It's a shame, because some people would like a really good condition smaller boat and don't want to have to go back to the 70s and 80s to get one. But that's where we are, and that's why 40-50 foot boats are so cheap nowadays compared to how they were.