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Stu Jackson · 25-04-2021, 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Dockhead, I normally look to your posts for their intelligence and thoughtfulness. What is it about this subject that has you being borderline insulting?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't get the heated response from many people on this subject. We see it dependably whenever Sean, the engineless circumnavigator on this forum, encourages engineless sailing.

I think it has something to do with his attitude and StuM's list of what he's already told us elsewhere.

That's why.

Fullbore · 25-04-2021, 17:49

Bingo!

**Don C L** · 25-04-2021, 18:00

Well.... would anyone like to discuss neat tricks for SAILING in to a slip solo? There was a guy in Santa Barbara 40 years ago who used to sail his Valiant 40 into his upwind slip. There really is no room for mistakes when you have a boat like that, and he did it well, but I don't think I ever saw him do it solo. Sure impressed me though! If you know Santa Barbara harbor, with its narrow channel, you know why.
But I was young and watching from a distance all the time, so maybe he cheated and had the engine idling the whole time.

DMF Sailing · 25-04-2021, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No who has ever sailed a cruising boat of any tonnage into a marina berth without a functioning motor, will ever forget the experience, even those of us with decades of cruising boat ownership and hundreds of thousands of miles of experience.

I remember one time, a lot of years ago, the outboard craps out in a gale... and the same wind has already snapped the shackle off the mainsheet block.. this is on a venerable old 27-footer that I guess needed repair. Oh well.

So I have a genoa, but I can make it to the slip, see, because I'm on a broad reach...

Did I mention that it's night? And that there are lots of boats on moorings between the channel and the dock?

So, me and my buddy devise a plan...we've got decades of sailing and thousands of miles of experience each... so we trust our plan.

We're going to furl that genoa up into a storm jib...line up and point in to the slip, guesstimate the point at which we have to furl it all the way in, and glide into the slip, hopefully not so fast as to make a dent in the boat. Or the dock... or plow through it, like that scene at the end of Jurassic Park II [pictured] ... but not so slow as to lose steerage, and slam into one of those moored boats!! At some point, one of us dimly surmises that if we sling two fenders sideways over the bow and lower them to just above the waterline, they could serve to soften the impact.

Yeah, so we calculate, furling as we come in, and it's the tiniest crack of a triangle, and it's working, we're slowing down, and I think I can get us on that slip in a—when suddenly this almighty bodacious gust picks us up faster than my buddy can furl, and drives us right into that dock.. "This isn't great," he deadpans, moments before impact... the fenders do their job and we kind of bounce to a halt. He hops over the side and ties us on.

Jurassic Park II does not happen.

I won't ever forget that.

It goes on the long list of mishaps that make you never want to be in a situation again.

I bet lots of people on this forum have a story like this about everything going wrong and you have to get into the slip under sail. The point is, lots of things have to go wrong for you to be in that situation. And you don't control it. And you learn from it, and develop the humility you need in order to sail...

Sorry for the thread drift....

**Don C L** · 25-04-2021, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I bet lots of people on this forum have a story like this about everything going wrong and you have to get into the slip under sail. The point is, lots of things have to go wrong for you to be in that situation. And you don't control it.

Sorry for the thread drift....

This thread needs a little drift!
Personally I have never had any experience like that....

DMF Sailing · 25-04-2021, 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don C L

This thread needs a little drift!
Personally I have never had any experience like that....

That's cuz you're a young'un

ORRRRR, you're not a screwup

**Dockhead** · 26-04-2021, 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fourlyons

Dockhead, I normally look to your posts for their intelligence and thoughtfulness. What is it about this subject that has you being borderline insulting?

Do you have personal experience seeing or hearing first hand of the Pardeys and other engineless sailors getting tows to get into harbor, as you claimed earlier? And what does it prove? If not, why repeat this?

You asked Rob about his experience. I kept my heavy, 25', engineless cutter in Shilshoal Marina in Seattle for three years, sailing in and out all the time. I now have a 40' cat ketch and own a slip at Anchorage Marina in Baltimore, I have sailed in and out there a number of times. I now have an engine; as others have noted, you have to pick your conditions carefully to do this.

I don't get the heated response from many people on this subject. We see it dependably whenever Sean, the engineless circumnavigator on this forum, encourages engineless sailing.

Well, I apologize to you and everyone else if anything I wrote seemed to be insulting to anyone. That was certainly not my intention.

I was responding to Post #37, where it is stated that sailing into a slip isn't much different from motoring in, and elaborate advice is given, and then the ridiculous Post #61 where Jim Cate is abused for suggesting that sailing in might be harder than has been suggested.

I thought it necessary to set the record straight, in case anyone else reading the thread might pick up misinformation.

No one gives "heated response" to someone just for sailing rather than motoring into a berth. You are one of the rare people with a lot of real experience; we would be all ears I'm sure. That's the opposite of the thing we were responding to, where the person obviously has never done it and is giving wrong advice in a bombastic way, and abusing people for questioning it.

As to the Pardeys -- it's in their book. I'm sure you've also read it.

Rockinar · 26-04-2021, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arch007

Thinking of ways to solo sail into a slip safely.

1. Tie a fender with each fender end to a cleat so the boat hits the fender rather than the slip end if coming in too fast.

2. Prepare a line with a loop. Line is attached to boat mid ship so can just slip over cleat.

What other ways ?

Thanks in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUTim_7PVJQ

**carstenb** · 26-04-2021, 01:24

We sailed our boat to the dock using just the sails and we've left the dock using just our sails. We only do it when

1- we have plenty of room

2- the wind is in our favor (uphill please)

3- there are no nasty currents etc in the harbor

4- we have formulated a bail-out plan just in case it turns into a screw-up

Numbers 1 +2 up there are the important ones. Is sailing up to a dock different/more difficult than using the engine?

yes it is. We don't claim to be master mariners or old salts but we do have some experience and have tried docking and undocking under most conditions.

Be Free · 26-04-2021, 10:07

Several years back I found myself inconvenienced 1/4 mile offshore of the narrow canal leading back to my dock. It was my habit to drop my sails, lower my outboard, and motor in from this point. Unfortunately the motor on the hydraulics for the engine tilt took this opportunity to announce its retirement.

I eventually gave in to the inevitable and conceded that the only way in was to sail back to the dock (a decision not to be taken lightly). In order to successfully navigate this canal required a shallow (maybe two boat lengths) "S" shaped maneuver to allow the spreaders to clear the lower branches on a pair of cypress trees. At the end was about a 45 degree turn to starboard after which there would likely be no wind at all due to surrounding trees.

I'd like to say it was my consummate skill and superb crew that got us back in that evening (did I mention it was approaching dusk?). In reality, if the wind had not been blowing almost directly down the canal and if I did not have someone with me to ease the jib sheets to depower us as we slipped by those spreader-grabbing monsters so I could concentrate on the little wiggle that would keep us out of their clutches I would not have tried it.

In the end a little skill and a lot of luck had us dousing the jib and coasting through the becalmed stretch and right up to the dock as neatly as I've ever done it under power.

Needless to say, none of the neighbors were sitting on their docks so no one saw us do it. Isn't that the way it always works?

At 26' and around 4000lbs I can't claim "cruiser" status, but I guarantee I'll never forget sailing that boat into its slip.

**Dockhead** · 26-04-2021, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

I remember one time, a lot of years ago, the outboard craps out in a gale... and the same wind has already snapped the shackle off the mainsheet block.. this is on a venerable old 27-footer that I guess needed repair. Oh well.

So I have a genoa, but I can make it to the slip, see, because I'm on a broad reach...

Did I mention that it's night? And that there are lots of boats on moorings between the channel and the dock?

So, me and my buddy devise a plan...we've got decades of sailing and thousands of miles of experience each... so we trust our plan.

We're going to furl that genoa up into a storm jib...line up and point in to the slip, guesstimate the point at which we have to furl it all the way in, and glide into the slip, hopefully not so fast as to make a dent in the boat. Or the dock... or plow through it, like that scene at the end of Jurassic Park II [pictured] ... but not so slow as to lose steerage, and slam into one of those moored boats!! At some point, one of us dimly surmises that if we sling two fenders sideways over the bow and lower them to just above the waterline, they could serve to soften the impact.

Yeah, so we calculate, furling as we come in, and it's the tiniest crack of a triangle, and it's working, we're slowing down, and I think I can get us on that slip in a—when suddenly this almighty bodacious gust picks us up faster than my buddy can furl, and drives us right into that dock.. "This isn't great," he deadpans, moments before impact... the fenders do their job and we kind of bounce to a halt. He hops over the side and ties us on.

Jurassic Park II does not happen.

I won't ever forget that.

It goes on the long list of mishaps that make you never want to be in a situation again.

I bet lots of people on this forum have a story like this about everything going wrong and you have to get into the slip under sail. The point is, lots of things have to go wrong for you to be in that situation. And you don't control it. And you learn from it, and develop the humility you need in order to sail...

Sorry for the thread drift....

Ha, ha. Love to hear stories like that. I could tell a few of my own . . .

The bit about humility is the most important part.

**Dockhead** · 26-04-2021, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Be Free

. . . At 26' and around 4000lbs I can't claim "cruiser" status, but I guarantee I'll never forget sailing that boat into its slip.

No one ever does . . .

dfelsent · 26-04-2021, 19:01

I remember trying to get to a dock. Engine failed. About 50 feet to the dock. 30’ boat. Glassy calm.
Put one crew in the water to swim a line over.
I’ll never forget that one. Don’t think the crew has either. [emoji1]

DMF Sailing · 26-04-2021, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by dfelsent

I remember trying to get to a dock. Engine failed. About 50 feet to the dock. 30’ boat. Glassy calm.
Put one crew in the water to swim a line over.
I’ll never forget that one. Don’t think the crew has either. [emoji1]

YES!! Excellent story.

I've had to do that, too. Actually, not to up the stakes, but I had to swim us from Long Point to inner Provincetown Harbor [see chart below].

What you discover, see, is that a boat, even a big boat, in water has neutral weight once it moves.

A human doing side stroke can swim it to shore.

Yeah... A human doing side stroke can swim a boat to shore, and the white sharks stand back and let it all be.

And you feel the humility of a boat before water.