USCG 6-PACK and 50 GRT Licence Holders

[caradow]

This has always been an enigma that SOME so called captains with their USCG documentation certificates present themselves as accomplished sailors.
Despite my 50+ years of sailing I have never taken these courses yet from time to time someone has called me wanting to get experience because they heard from my local area I guess that I have done some offshore sailing. My only courses have been Celestial Navigation and Safety at Sea. I do not have a USCG certificate but grew up racing small boats and through the years being rail meat on bigger race boats learned to become a skipper. Anyone who can read can learn rules, lights etc.
I have taken a few of these "Captains" sailing and were quite disappointed in their practical knowledge . I understand they do need sea time to be accepted and do understand to a certain point that experience will come. However I guess when someone introduces themselves as "Captain" I would think they should already be capable of filling that title.
I have also had people call me requesting that I sign for their sea time despite never sailing with me.I suspect this is way too common.
This is where I will get flack from some readers but I honestly feel that this Professional title should come only after proven on the water experience.
I have witnessed a case of a so called advertised captain that had several trips with paying customers having to be rescued by the CG for for his own ignorance.
In closing I am obviously stating that this is a potentially dangerous practice presenting to the unsuspecting public.
No difference than going flying with someone who never had a professional pilot sitting next to them durning their lessons.

[Hartleyg]

Several years ago, because we were stuck in FL for a couple months, my wife decided we should take a "Captain's Course". We did so, and I found it interesting, informative (who knew there were so many buoy systems?) and a good "by the book" navigation refresher. It also made me appreciate the world of Professional Mariners in a whole new way.
We've renewed once since then, and I don't think we've ever hired ourselves out under those licenses, but for a couple months of weekend time and a few bucks, it was, I think useful.


I do NOT call myself a "Professional Mariner", though I like to think I act in a professional manner out on the water.


Anyone with a 25/50/100T license who thinks they are a pro should ask a tug captain for their opinion on the subject =8^O .


Hartley
S/V Atsa

[Jammer]

https://www.amazon.com/Please-Addres.../dp/B00LV3F0AK

[Hartleyg]

But Jammer - you linked to the SMALL size! Most of the ones I know who would wear that are 3XL.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by caradow

This has always been an enigma that SOME so called captains with their USCG documentation certificates present themselves as accomplished sailors.

USCG does not use the term "captain" in any MMC.


In the USA and most other English-speaking nations, even people who are routinely addressed by title in the performance of their professional duties (doctor, judge, military officer) do not ordinarily carry this expectation outside the structured workplaces where it is expected or required. This is less true in other cultures fwiw.


Of the many people I know who hold an OUPV or master's ticket I have never encountered any in person who expect to be addressed as "captain" or who believe that their MMC is any sort of significant achievement beyond making them eligible for certain jobs.

[caradow]

Originally Posted by Hartleyg

Several years ago, because we were stuck in FL for a couple months, my wife decided we should take a "Captain's Course". We did so, and I found it interesting, informative (who knew there were so many buoy systems?) and a good "by the book" navigation refresher. It also made me appreciate the world of Professional Mariners in a whole new way.
We've renewed once since then, and I don't think we've ever hired ourselves out under those licenses, but for a couple months of weekend time and a few bucks, it was, I think useful.


I do NOT call myself a "Professional Mariner", though I like to think I act in a professional manner out on the water.


Anyone with a 25/50/100T license who thinks they are a pro should ask a tug captain for their opinion on the subject =8^O .


Hartley
S/V Atsa

Ha you guys are certainly exceptions but I must agree the first time I entered the inner harbour in Le Marin Martinque I was amazed to see all those different colored triangles marking the shoals, must admit I had to resort to some of my books yet if i HAD taken a course many years previously i would not have remembered them anyway. As they say old age is not for the faint of heart but it sure beats the alternative

[caradow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

USCG does not use the term "captain" in any MMC.


In the USA and most other English-speaking nations, even people who are routinely addressed by title in the performance of their professional duties (doctor, judge, military officer) do not ordinarily carry this expectation outside the structured workplaces where it is expected or required. This is less true in other cultures fwiw.


Of the many people I know who hold an OUPV or master's ticket I have never encountered any in person who expect to be addressed as "captain" or who believe that their MMC is any sort of significant achievement beyond making them eligible for certain jobs.

Yup, yet some of the ones I have met have these nice glossy wallet sized cards with Captain XXXX with their USCG XX GRT stated.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by caradow

I have taken a few of these "Captains" sailing and were quite disappointed in their practical knowledge . I understand they do need sea time to be accepted and do understand to a certain point that experience will come. However I guess when someone introduces themselves as "Captain" I would think they should already be capable of filling that title.

I might suggest that someone introducing themselves as "Captain —" is in many cases a red flag.

Given the sea time requirements, by the time someone gets an OUPV or other license they should indeed already have such a practical base of experience. Now, I wouldn't someone only experienced with power vessels to understand how to trim the sails, but I would expect some level of knowledge regarding most other aspects.

[davil]

I will rephrase the OP question as it bothers me

The local Community College offers a USCG approved course to issue a License as
USCG-approved OUPV/Six-Pack captain's license

Among requirements

Boating Experience: Minimum of 360 days on vessels, with specific requirements depending on the license type (e.g., 90 days on ocean, near coastal, or Great Lakes for Near Coastal, 90 days on Great Lakes for Great Lakes/Inland


I know of people who have successfully passed the course and test who do not have the sea time.

Question
Is the sea time granted on honor basis?
Self reported?

[hpeer]

I have gone the reverse. Once I got my boat I would go someplace and somebody would address me as “Captain.” I did not feel I had the qualification for that applet. So I went and did the OUPV. Didn’t change anything but made me feel better.

[davil]

From the official site


Requirements For OUPV License


90 days service in the last 3 years on vessels of appropriate tonnage.
Near Coastal: 360 days deck service in the operation of vessels, including 90 days service on ocean or near coastal waters.
Great Lakes/Inland: 360 days deck service in the operation of vessels, including 90 days service on Great Lakes.
Inland: 360 days deck service in the operation of vessels.
Towing Endorsement: Must request and pass towing endorsement examination.

[rls8r]

To be honest, I really haven't given this a great deal of thought. But sitting here I can see calling someone "Captain" in several circumstances which may, or may not imply some degree of competence in handling watecraft.

First, if a person is a uniformed officer and has attained the rank of Captain. In the U.S. we see this in the Navy, Army, Marines, Coast Guard, Air Force, Public Health Service, Space Force, and even the NOAA Commissioned Officer Corps. Other nations may have more complicated etiquette.

Second, if a person has an unlimited tonnage all-oceans master mariner's license and has worked his/her way up the ladder through various mate positions to command a commercial vessel.

Finally, if a person has responsible charge of a vessel and is on that vessel - whether or not the person has a license. In this case I see the appellation "Captain" as indicating the person who has the responsibility and authority to make decsions regarding the operation of the vessel. It does not imply the ability to do so competently. I believe it is in this regard that we hear the Coast Guard, bridge operators, and others call us "Captain" on the VHF.

I'll call a person "Captain" when he/she is on his/her boat (and is in charge of operating that boat) - but I'll generally use the term "Skipper" otherwise. I don't call a person "Captain" simply because he/she holds a license to operate a vessel commercially.

I don't regard any license in any profession as an indication of competence. To me, it only indicates that the person has fulfilled minimum education and experience requirements, that the person can be identified and held responsible for decisions, and that the person can lose the ability to work in that profession if he/she messes up too much.

Sitting here, I can't really recall anyone introducing themselves to me as "Captain" - although some have been introduced to me as such by others. Even in those cases I won't call them "Captain" unless they fall into one of the three categories I've described above.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by davil

I know of people who have successfully passed the course and test who do not have the sea time.

Question
Is the sea time granted on honor basis?
Self reported?

Answer: Yes. This can be a problem, and while I don't know the scale, rumor suggests that a non-significant number of OUPV holders have fudged or otherwise listed sea time that "shouldn't" count. I.e. you can memorize the test answers and list days spent day-drinking while your girlfriend drives the boat and get your card.

Originally Posted by rls8r

I'll call a person "Captain" when he/she is on his/her boat (and is in charge of operating that boat) - but I'll generally use the term "Skipper" otherwise. I don't call a person "Captain" simply because he/she holds a license to operate a vessel commercially.

Agree, it's both a role and a title. "John Smith, captain of the yacht Rubby Ducky" vs. "Captain Smith, ret'd", although I too tend to use 'skipper' for the role.

[Kettlewell]

There is a lot of rampant cheating with regard to sea time reporting, and I have met many "Captains" who really weren't very experienced. I would prefer the CG dropped the sea time requirements and instead required maybe certain approved and certified courses of instruction. In other words, instead of taking one of many "Captain's Course" programs one could say take a semester at an approved school that included actual boat handling, navigation on the water, etc. It would be expensive, but the license might actually mean something.

[kayakerChuck]

I've got a shoebox full of assorted certifications in all sorts of things. Among them are a couple ASA instructor certs and a USCG Master's license.

I'm pushing 60 years old and have been on, around, building, or repairing boats for my entire life. I'm finally starting to feel like I know enough to have a valid opinion, but- I'm a puddle duck. I have friends who are open ocean unlimited masters. They actually KNOW things.

I commonly see people with the certs who cannot actually tie a bowline, dock a boat, or give a safety brief. I know lots of people without any cert who do these things better than I do.

When teaching sailing, I'm introduced as "Captain Chuck". I'm not comfortable with the title, even though it is legally, morally, and technically correct.

For me, it's much like SCUBA diving. I have friends who have high level certifications, and I will not get in the water with them. They are not safe. I have other friends, who have the lowest level of certification, that I will dive with in any conditions where I feel comfortable. Swift water, low vis, whatever. It's not the credential that matters, which does not say much for most of the systems that provide them.