Transgender and cruising?

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Gender is a state. A state as such is not active. Sexuality is an active activity. The OP and the discussion were about activity

Last time I looked unless you advertised yourself your sexuality or gender need not be that apparent , hence assuming you avoid the stereotypes or gender displays you will therefore not attract attention

Attracting attention is part of the whole thing but it’s not a good idea everywhere.

My point was leave the “ activism or associated politics “ at home. Yes you may not be able to “ display “ yourself in a manner of your choosing but that’s not up to you.

The OP did not show any intension to do activism. Neither did she adress sexuality or sexual behavior.

Some folks are locked into a body which does not fit to their mind. This can be put in line, but not all seem to be able to do this in a manner that they do get 100% of time "read" by the public in the way they feel and desire.

So understandably the question of what might happen on a cruise can arise. If the person in question has a hard time to physically blend in, they will likely have this irrespective of where they are.

The more we lead by displaying acceptance, the easier their life will be. It's surely not easy.
Obviously it makes sense to not try to deliberately not to blend in as much as possible, especially in less tolerant social environments.
Still I did not have the impression that the OP would do that.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

The OP did not show any intension to do activism. Neither did she adress sexuality or sexual behavior.

Some folks are locked into a body which does not fit to their mind. This can be put in line, but not all seem to be able to do this in a manner that they do get 100% of time "read" by the public in the way they feel and desire.

So understandably the question of what might happen on a cruise can arise. If the person in question has a hard time to physically blend in, they will likely have this irrespective of where they are.

The more we lead by displaying acceptance, the easier their life will be. It's surely not easy.
Obviously it makes sense to not try to deliberately not to blend in as much as possible, especially in less tolerant social environments.
Still I did not have the impression that the OP would do that.

The issue is not my attitude or yours

My point was that for example a transgender person has a decision to display that outwards. To me that’s a display of sexuality not gender. It’s a statement for Example as a man You may identify as a women. I don’t care about that but many societies do care if you choose to display your sexual choices outwardly

In my western cities “ gay and queer “ bashing is not pretty. Best keep you sexual identify quiet.

Hence my advice by all means identify however you like but tread carefully when you decide to confront “ social norms “.

That’s my point thread carefully and be conscious of the situation. The advice applies to many such situations like walking into the blue mosque in a pair of shorts. !!! Or singing republican hymns on the falls road. !!!

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The issue is not my attitude or yours

My point was that for example a transgender person has a decision to display that outwards. To me that’s a display of sexuality not gender. It’s a statement for Example as a man You may identify as a women. I don’t care about that but many societies do care if you choose to display your sexual choices outwardly

In my western cities “ gay and queer “ bashing is not pretty. Best keep you sexual identify quiet.

Hence my advice by all means identify however you like but tread carefully when you decide to confront “ social norms “.

That’s my point thread carefully and be conscious of the situation. The advice applies to many such situations like walking into the blue mosque in a pair of shorts. !!! Or singing republican hymns on the falls road. !!!

It. Is. Not. A. Choice.

They do express their gender just as any other woman does. We are not talking about drag queen's and behavior of that kind.

For those folks, they do not do it for benign motifs. A transgender has not the option to stay in their old role just because it might be safer in a certain location.

They can avoid certain locations and for this purpose a thread like this might be helpful.
It's also helpful to learn about the general attitude amongst the cruising crowd, which seems to, by enlarge, not to have an issue with transgender.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Gender is a state. A state as such is not active. Sexuality is an active activity. The OP and the discussion were about activity

Last time I looked unless you advertised yourself your sexuality or gender need not be that apparent , hence assuming you avoid the stereotypes or gender displays you will therefore not attract attention

Attracting attention is part of the whole thing but it’s not a good idea everywhere.

My point was leave the “ activism or associated politics “ at home. Yes you may not be able to “ display “ yourself in a manner of your choosing but that’s not up to you.

Your entire response is nonsense. Gobbilygook.

The op did not ask nor even imply anything to do with ‘activity’ as you put it. And the issue of gender is a pan entirely separate issue to sexuality.

What I’m suspecting your saying, please correct me if I have assumed wrongly, but I suspect your saying that if the op choose to dress as a woman then that is an activity and she should not do so in some countries?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Your entire response is nonsense. Gobbilygook.



The op did not ask nor even imply anything to do with ‘activity’ as you put it. And the issue of gender is a pan entirely separate issue to sexuality.



What I’m suspecting your saying, please correct me if I have assumed wrongly, but I suspect your saying that if the op choose to dress as a woman then that is an activity and she should not do so in some countries?

I’m saying that one should be aware of any cultural issues and not push it. ! This applies all over world

[Chotu]

I don’t think people are following what goboatingnow is saying.

All he’s saying is blend in.

For instance, if you are a guy that’s born a man, and you were going to walk around with lipstick on and fingernails painted and a beard and a big female looking wig? You are not going to have a good time in many conservative and/or religious countries.

If you were born a guy, but now you are a chick, and you look like a woman, that’s fine. Just blend in. Be a woman.

And vice versa. And whatever.

But the idea is to be aware of the cultural norms of the place you are visiting and blend in. To be modest. And this is true for every single subject matter or topic in existence. Not just gender stuff.

Kiss a girl as a hetero guy on the streets in a strongly Muslim country? You’re gonna have a bad time - and she probably a worse time. Bring your prescription weed that you believe strongly in and have a right to carry to Russia? We’ve all seen where that gets you. Step on your cash to save it from blowing away in Thailand? Uh oh.

You would think on this forum, we would have a lot of travelers. Maybe we don’t. But it’s important when you travel to blend in to the culture. Otherwise you are not going to have a good time.

And honestly, isn’t that half the fun of traveling? To learn the new culture, to apply the culture to yourself, to learn the language, to learn the cuisine? Those are the reasons I travel. To try to live in different ways that are novel and interesting. To understand how other people think/live/feel and to develop a greater understanding of others.

Bringing your narrow minded politics and beliefs to other areas is not fun at all and can get you in a lot of trouble.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Some nonbinary people are not able to avoid appearing to be trans due to the nature of who they are, especially on an ongoing basis, and especially in contexts where full or partial nudity is expected or necessary or where any unusual body features may lead to questioning. Think marina showers, beaches, customs/immigration, doctor's visits.

In some cases it's like asking a racially mixed couple to hide the fact that they are a racially mixed couple so that they can blend in to the local culture and avoid offending anyone.

Yes, there are the rare folks with genetic disorders where it's difficult to hide their status but those are rare examples.

For the vast majority, it is a choice. Mentally, it may be an important choice for them but still a choice.

So for the vast majority, if you keep a low profile, you probably aren't going to have any problems.

If you make a crusade about it, expect problems.

Most marinas don't have group showers, so you shouldn't have a lot of problems with it unless you flaunt it or you otherwise make it obvious. Likewise, most places that accept teeny tiny string bikinis aren't going to care if you have a package in your thong. Places that have an issue are likely not going to approve anyone in a bikini. At customs/immigration best option it to dress to match as they will have documentation if your gender doesn't match your documents.

Personally I don't care but for the vast majority, they will have to decide if they want to right the worlds wrongs or travel without problems.

PS: This is about how to travel without problems, not a moral sermon on if it's right or wrong.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I don’t think people are following what goboatingnow is saying.

All he’s saying is blend in.

For instance, if you are a guy that’s born a man, and you were going to walk around with lipstick on and fingernails painted and a beard and a big female looking wig? You are not going to have a good time in many conservative and/or religious countries.

If you were born a guy, but now you are a chick, and you look like a woman, that’s fine. Just blend in. Be a woman.

And vice versa. And whatever.

But the idea is to be aware of the cultural norms of the place you are visiting and blend in. To be modest. And this is true for every single subject matter or topic in existence. Not just gender stuff.

Kiss a girl as a hetero guy on the streets in a strongly Muslim country? You’re gonna have a bad time - and she probably a worse time. Bring your prescription weed that you believe strongly in and have a right to carry to Russia? We’ve all seen where that gets you. Step on your cash to save it from blowing away in Thailand? Uh oh.

You would think on this forum, we would have a lot of travelers. Maybe we don’t. But it’s important when you travel to blend in to the culture. Otherwise you are not going to have a good time.

And honestly, isn’t that half the fun of traveling? To learn the new culture, to apply the culture to yourself, to learn the language, to learn the cuisine? Those are the reasons I travel. To try to live in different ways that are novel and interesting. To understand how other people think/live/feel and to develop a greater understanding of others.

Bringing your narrow minded politics and beliefs to other areas is not fun at all and can get you in a lot of trouble.

Yep that’s exactly what I’m saying especially the last bit

[boatman61]

Follow the laws and customs of each country you arrive in..
Straight couples can be arrested for public displays of affection in some countries, in others you can get away with having sex on a public beach.
Like religion, don't shove home customs in people's faces when abroad.
You only have your 'Rights' at home, not in someone else's.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I don’t think people are following what goboatingnow is saying.

All he’s saying is blend in.

For instance, if you are a guy that’s born a man, and you were going to walk around with lipstick on and fingernails painted and a beard and a big female looking wig? You are not going to have a good time in many conservative and/or religious countries.

If you were born a guy, but now you are a chick, and you look like a woman, that’s fine. Just blend in. Be a woman.

And vice versa. And whatever.

But the idea is to be aware of the cultural norms of the place you are visiting and blend in. To be modest. And this is true for every single subject matter or topic in existence. Not just gender stuff.

Kiss a girl as a hetero guy on the streets in a strongly Muslim country? You’re gonna have a bad time - and she probably a worse time. Bring your prescription weed that you believe strongly in and have a right to carry to Russia? We’ve all seen where that gets you. Step on your cash to save it from blowing away in Thailand? Uh oh.

You would think on this forum, we would have a lot of travelers. Maybe we don’t. But it’s important when you travel to blend in to the culture. Otherwise you are not going to have a good time.

And honestly, isn’t that half the fun of traveling? To learn the new culture, to apply the culture to yourself, to learn the language, to learn the cuisine? Those are the reasons I travel. To try to live in different ways that are novel and interesting. To understand how other people think/live/feel and to develop a greater understanding of others.

Bringing your narrow minded politics and beliefs to other areas is not fun at all and can get you in a lot of trouble.

I agree with you, but, if this is what GBN tried to express in all his postings, than he failed big time to convey his point except on the last posting.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Yes, there are the rare folks with genetic disorders where it's difficult to hide their status but those are rare examples.

How many trans people do you know?


As an example, one problem that transmen face, is that if they transition after reaching puberty, they will always have flared hips, no matter what hormones they take or what surgical interventions they have. The amount of flare depends on individual genetics, but for most transmen, some people will notice. Some people who don't like transmen will notice, and in cultures where anti-trans sentiments are empowered by law or custom, that's a problem.


Transwomen have the opposite problem and also have to deal with the effects of testosterone, some of which are irreversible.

For the vast majority, it is a choice. Mentally, it may be an important choice for them but still a choice

Now, whether you see that as a choice or not, the facts on the ground are that a transman who has fully transitioned can't wake up one morning and decide to be female for a day, because they have the musculature, the facial hair, and the flat chest of a man. They are who they are.

Most marinas don't have group showers, so you shouldn't have a lot of problems with it unless you flaunt it or you otherwise make it obvious. Likewise, most places that accept teeny tiny string bikinis aren't going to care if you have a package in your thong. Places that have an issue are likely not going to approve anyone in a bikini. At customs/immigration best option it to dress to match as they will have documentation if your gender doesn't match your documents.

You minimize what are in actual fact serious risks of being outed when trying to blend in, in a transphobic environment.

PS: This is [...] not a moral sermon on if it's right or wrong.

I don't know whether it's a moral sermon or not but it certainly betrays a lack of understanding of the very real problems that trans people face.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I agree with you, but, if this is what GBN tried to express in all his postings, than he failed big time to convey his point except on the last posting.

I merely said don’t “ advertise “ ie don’t trust your opinions into the locals face.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Jammer

How many trans people do you know?


As an example, one problem that transmen face, is that if they transition after reaching puberty, they will always have flared hips, no matter what hormones they take or what surgical interventions they have. The amount of flare depends on individual genetics, but for most transmen, some people will notice. Some people who don't like transmen will notice, and in cultures where anti-trans sentiments are empowered by law or custom, that's a problem.


Transwomen have the opposite problem and also have to deal with the effects of testosterone, some of which are irreversible.






Now, whether you see that as a choice or not, the facts on the ground are that a transman who has fully transitioned can't wake up one morning and decide to be female for a day, because they have the musculature, the facial hair, and the flat chest of a man. They are who they are.







You minimize what are in actual fact serious risks of being outed when trying to blend in, in a transphobic environment.





I don't know whether it's a moral sermon or not but it certainly betrays a lack of understanding of the very real problems that trans people face.

The real problems are real but this is not thd questio. The Op posed it was specifically about visiting other countries.

In some countries these situations are illegal or thinly tolerated or offend locals.

Hence my comment don’t advertise yourself as different. You’ll be fine.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I merely said don’t “ advertise “ ie don’t trust your opinions into the locals face.

Transgender is not an "opinion" you don't get that, do you.

It's a huge problem those folks affected. They are all trying to figure out a way to handle it.

They often face the choice of throwing themselves under a truck or trying to somehow live their life peacefully in their actual gender.

All those colorful drag Queens which are so often mixed up with this are not at all what this here is about.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Jammer

How many trans people do you know?

5 or 6 that I hang out with regularly.