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Old 14-08-2019, 15:49   #61
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

That's a good example, Simi, Manly Boat Hbr.

One time, when I was on the helm, the dinghies all were coming out to play, and we were entering the harbor, having come down the channel to it. It was just before they dredged, and there was a skinny spot between the entry and where we needed to go. I actually hollered at the dinghies that I was constrained by depth! I don't think they had a clue what I was on about, but I was feeling doubtful of my ability to avoid the hordes of kids. No collisions occurred, but leaving or entering after they're out of the way is, shall I say, more peaceful.

Of the recent fatalities involving motor vessels and sailing vessels, it has seemed to me that (reason unknown) the sailing vessels have continued as "stand on" longer than they should have. I am only guessing when i say that they don't avoid the collision soon enough. One of the earlier posts in the thread was about this very issue, and I think the difficulties come from the fact that with a planing power boat, it is hard to tell just how fast they're closing. Once the boat is planing, it doesn't appear very different at 25 kn, than 12, but it does make a difference to when the sailboat needs to start to avoid.

The incident that is most vivid to me is the one where the British skipper's vessel was struck by a planing motor vessel, whose skipper was inattentive. Sunk the guy's sailboat, his girlfriend drowned, and suddenly, he's homeless in the Caribbean. Obviously, he should have turned aside sooner. But how was he to know the skipper was inattentive? Here's where an early VHF contact might have helped, like Dockhead suggested. Ain't Monday morning quarterbacking fun!

Possibly the closing speed issue is the one we need to examine closely, 'cause I bet there are human visual limitations that apply.

Ann
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Old 14-08-2019, 16:19   #62
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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Please explain.
I gave you an explanation. The problem is I cannot make you understand.
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Old 23-10-2019, 17:20   #63
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Boater won’t be criminally charged in deadly crash off Newport!

https://www.providencejournal.com/ne...-off-newport/1
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Old 24-10-2019, 06:34   #64
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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The violations include risk of collision, action to avoid a collision, responsibilities between vessels and failure to keep a look-out. Each violation carries a maximum fine of $100, according to the press release.
Wow, a lot to digest in that short article. First, disregard the lubber reporter's misuse of the term"right of way" and their focus on speed. Since the only traffic law that's ever really enforced on the roads is the speed limit, we've all come to blame every accident or near-accident on someone speeding.

The meat of the article is the four charges. Of note is "failure to keep a lookout." [Hyphenating that word is more proof of the author's lack of knowledge.] Obviously that's almost always a contributing factor to a collision, but I wonder if there's more there. Like someone suggested above, leaving the helm on autopilot and going below.

Then there's the $100 fine for each offense. $400 seems a pretty low price for a life. I have visions of Rodney Dangerfield: "You scratched my anchor!" This is Newport...
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Old 24-10-2019, 15:42   #65
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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Boater won’t be criminally charged in deadly crash off Newport!

https://www.providencejournal.com/ne...-off-newport/1

"DEM is citing Teixeira with four violations of the Coast Guard’s Inland Navigational Rules,"

So much for the frequently seen statement on CF that COLREGs aren't laws ("they are only a treaty") and people don't get prosecuted for breaking them.
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Old 24-10-2019, 17:31   #66
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Are inland USCG rules COLREGS?
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Old 24-10-2019, 17:41   #67
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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Where did you find that in COLREGS????

I find your comment on recklessness kindly omits arrogant sailboats who when racing don't give a damn about others including sailboats not involved in their race. OH.... a REGATTA!!! Damn the torpedoes.............. get out of their way! BULL POOP!
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Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Quite difficult sometimes.

We have had several situations happen like kenomac describes above, sailors changing course for no other reason but to be a PITA, proof being that after the far closer than necessary manoeuvering, horn sounding and ear full of abuse, they drop back onto their original course.
If they had simply stayed on their original course we would have passed within 100 metres.
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The muppets weren't even racing, they were just being dicks.
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Here’s another arrogant racer situation......we found ourselves completely swarmed by 40 or so 25ft-28ft kamikazi sailboats all sceaming at us to get out of their f***ing way...

This sort of behavior of racers thinking they own the entire bay... does not serve to endear them to responsible non-racers, powerboat or otherwise.
What I am reading on this thread seems to reveal a lot of anger towards sailboat racers, including anecdotes purporting to show how terrible racers are in general.

What this has to do with the accident off Newport elludes me. In fact the most recent news releases include a statment by Teixeira that he did not see the sailboat until it was right infront of him at the momnet of the collision. That tells me he wasn't watching. The citations he received indicate that the authorities concluded that as well. Nothing was reported that indicate that the sailboat was holding a course as a "stand on vessel" in disregard of the rules or thier safety. It seems that they too did not see the oncoming powerboat.

But back to the claims that sailboat racers are arrogant a**hats who constantly act as dicks, sometimes, while asserting thier "rights", even coming as close as "150ft" to a powerboat.

I've boated virtually my whole life. As a power boater for 20 years and as a sailor for 50 years. I've competed in sailboat races around the world, probably thousands of them. And I've cruised on sailboats and powerboats for a lot more time than I've actually raced. I've generally found sailboat racers to be competent boat operators and usually gentlemen, though not always. Competition brings out the worst in some folks. But I've never encountered a fleet of "40 kamikazi sailboats all sceaming at us to get out of their f***ing way...", or even two!

I have seen racers cut very close to other boats, racers do it all the time. Non-racers feel threatened by this.

I've seen racers sailing hard on the wind change course suddenly as the wind shifts. They have to, sailboats cannot continue on a course when the wind turns onto thier bows. The non-racers or powerboaters may feel that the racer is doing it on purpose, just to be a dick. I don't think that that is very often the case.

I've been caught in a crowd of racing dingys or even a fleet of larger boats where I had no idea how to avoid them all. I just slow to a crawl and let them avoid me. I've never been hit or yelled at in one of those situations. If I am sailing I do the best I can to follow the Colregs. Again, I've never been hit or yelled at, (not that it has not happened to you, it just has not happened to me.)

I've been in races, lots of them, when a non-racing boat intruded into "our" course area, or a powerboat. What I, and most of the racers I've known, do is sail around them. Sometimes I try to wave them into holding a course because the last thing I want is for a panicked skipper to take some sudden, ill advised, avoiding action. Some times that works, other times they jam the throttle down and try to take off. I'm sure they write comments about the arrogant racers. But I don't get mad at them, and I don't yell at them, I've got other, more important, things to do, like get on with my race. (Here is a case where a powerboat did just that, and caused our good friends to have their boat damaged and totaled: http://svcrystalblues.blogspot.com/2...om-lemons.html)

On the other hand I've been in a few crossing situations with powerboats where it was clear that the powerboat operator was inattentive or ignorant of his obligations. I've held on as long as I could, then avoided what otherwise would have been a collision. And I've yelled at them afterwards, though I can't say that it did me any good.

Frankly, I've seen more powerboaters who seem to be unaware of their responsibilites than sailboat racers.

And I'd have to say to the operators of large powerboats: if your manuverability is such that you can't avoid a sailboat which suddenly appears in front of you, then you are going too fast. Slow down. Your lack of manuverabilty does not relieve you from the rules of the road.

As for you sailors who feel so threatened by sailboat racers, upgrade your skills so you don't become terrified when they are close,

and chill.
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Old 24-10-2019, 20:43   #68
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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Are inland USCG rules COLREGS?

Good point. In this case, it is the US Inland Rules, not the International Rules, however both have equal effect and if it had happened 2 miles further south in the same area, they would have used the International Rules.
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Old 24-10-2019, 21:06   #69
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

In the example I gave above of the skipper who lost his lady love and his vessel in the same incident he was the stand on vessel, and he stood on too long. There is never any guarantee that the vessel who is supposed to avoid you, actually will, obviously, the skipper of the motor boat lost his license, in the above incident--iirc, it was a skippered charter.

So, you gotta ask yourself, how can I keep something like this from happening to me? And, mostly you can, by being extremely beforehand in your actions. Or, you can chat with them while they're quite a ways off, and agree on how to pass. (If they have AIS.) But leaving it for the last moment can get you killed.

Ann
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Old 24-10-2019, 21:25   #70
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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Are inland USCG rules COLREGS?
I have a book. I've had it since 1983. It's published by U.S. Department of Transportation, United States Coast Guard. It's called NAVIGATION RULES, INTERNATIONAL-INLAND

The International Rules, commonly known as 72 COLREGS, and the Inland Rules enacted by the Inland Navigational Rules act of 1980 are in the same book, page by page, side by side, and are very close.
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Old 25-10-2019, 05:23   #71
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

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What I am reading on this thread seems to reveal a lot of anger towards sailboat racers, including anecdotes purporting to show how terrible racers are in general.
As a power boater, I'm on your side. I have very little beef with racing sailors. At least they're paying attention, and they're good at running their boats.

I generally figure out it's a race long before I get there. I can usually pick out the pillows, and discern the course in plenty of time to avoid it.

Granted, it's sometimes not that easy. There can be multiple courses or multiple classes I'm not aware of. I sometimes get it wrong and find them sailing toward me when I thought they'd be turning away. But I never blame the racers for that. They can get a bit of a myopic view which comes across as arrogant, but the same can be said of commercial fishermen.

The folks I have a problem with (power OR sail) are those who don't know or care about the rules. Sailors who think they always have "right of way" are just as bad as power boaters who think the only thing they need to learn to operate a boat is how to write a big check.
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Old 25-10-2019, 05:54   #72
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

More details have been released: https://www.newportri.com/news/20191...rragansett-bay
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