Tipping

[Andy744]

Give him a Tip - Don’t eat yellow snow.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

There's a gap in my knowledge, but I'll provide what I have anyway.

In Europe, both historically and today in many cases, hospitality was/is a profession (things are flexing a bit- so I'll use the word "is" rather than "was" or a combination). A high-end restaurant waiter in Germany, for example, is a professional with great pride in his work, and it is offensive to tip him.
Yes, they may consider it a professional job in Europe but never had a tip turned down.

How USA got into the tipping thing I do not know. It has been for my lifetime expected for served dining and delivery (e.g., pizza delivery.) The standard tip for a bar or restaurant is 15%, which is at the discretion of the client. I've tipped 0% and I've tipped 30%.
Used to be 10%, then it went to 15%, currently the push is for 20%...Over that same time period, the prices of going out to eat have quadrupled...Assuming the menu prices track inflation, why exactly shoudl the percentage increase?

Side note that some restaurants add a "helpful" tipping schedule at the end of the bill, making it easy to figure out how much to tip if you want to leave 15%, 18%, or 20%. The scam is that many calculate this including tax; the tip is supposed to be only on the product, not the tax. So be careful.
Realistically, most people look at the bottom row (which includes taxes and calculates the tip based on that number.

Anyway, there's no such thing as a free lunch, so both restaurants and government had to get their cut of the tips. Restaurants, with the approval of government, can reduce hourly pay based on "probably" income from tips. And, of course, government wants some of that money, so it's taxable. So tips are not the boon they used to be, and as previously cited can actually hurt a server (though truthfully only crappy servers.)
Actually, the govt gets hosed as it's common for waitstaff to reduce the amount they report.

Again, restaurants, can't reduce pay. If the pay including tips doesn't hit minimum wage, the restaurant is required to make up the difference. Of course, unless you are a horrible waitress, it's pretty hard not to make minimum wage.

VERY seldom would one tip the auto repair guy, the garbage pickup guy, or the marina dock hand, etc. HOWEVER, I've found doing so increases the level of service. But it is neither customary nor expected.

I haven't seen this effect and if it became common place, it would be like restaurants where the only thing you can expect is if you don't tip sufficiently, expect a lugi in your hamburger the next time.

Fire departments solicit for contributions and hold BBQ for revenue. It's a US custom, particularly the BBQ. In many small towns the Fire Dept is the center of their world- where people are married, where the community gathers.
Huhh...Holding a fund raising BBQ is not tipping. Grew up in a small town and never heard of anyone getting married there. Volunteer fire fighters deserve respect for what they do but never had any sense that they were the center of the local community.

To sum it up for the poor visitors to USA: if you sit at a restaurant and they bring your food, standard tip is 15%. If you have a pizza delivered, tip a couple dollars. Nobody else gets tipped.

The final advice: If you don't plan to go back to the restaurant, 15% is more than adequate. It's too late for it to have any impact on your service anyway. If you plan to go back, particularly multiple times, don't be shocked when the service goes downhill.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

So tell me how do servers in England and Germany get by without tips?

They do get tips but usually only around 10% but they do get a higher base wage.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Peeew

What happened today is when all this gets out of hand. Lunch in the Bahamas at a small island, beach bar. Bill was $19.25. I gave her a $20 and another 20, asked her to break the second one. She put $20 in the register and the other in her tip jar, started to walk away. I told her that I wanted the $20 broken into smaller bills not for her to keep it. She gave me a dirty look and two tens. I left her the change in my pocket. I tried to be understanding and a decent tipper but she blew it.

This baffles me but I've seen it also.

I did work a tip job back in college and one of the first things I was told was to avoid giving change in large bills. If the change was going to be $10.35, do not give them a ten dollar bill or you are likely to get $0.35 as your tip (or worse, they will feel guilty about the small tip and give you nothing). Give them a $5 and five $1's, that way it's obvious they have small bills to tip with.

PS: I got out of that line of work fast as the guys who did well had all kinds a scummy tricks to guilt customers into tipping more.

[twig]

I worked hard most of my life in service related work and never made over $20 an hour. I did it because I enjoyed the work and making the community better. I never got tipped nor was expecting it. Am I cheap, you bet , I had to be. I can tie up my boat myself and pump out myself. It bothers me when you come into a marina and 3 guys run down and tie you up and I’m supposed to tip them $5-10 each. I don’t think so. My point is it’s part of the job they signed up for. Some are going to tip a lot and some not. That’s ok. It averages out and a good life lesson. I was at a state marina in Michigan last year and they were not allowed to take tips. Dock hands said it was their job. I’m sure they were not paid real well but did it because they enjoyed the work. Kind of refreshing not to have a hand held out everywhere you go,

[lady sophie]

Not really about cruising but - I lived in China and if you tip there it is an embarrassment because it says "you did not do a good job therefore I will pay you more to do a better job next time". No body wants to admit that they got a tip. They certainly don't want their boss to know.

[goboatingnow]

I don’t habitually tip. I expect an industry to pay its staff reasonable wages. I support minimum wages standards etc.

I only tip if I feel the service has gone above what I would normally expect that person to do as part of a job well done.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

As for workers relying on the good graces of customers, well yeah. I already said it. Crap service gets crap tip. Really crappy services gets $0 repeat because the clients don't return. They get what they (scary word here) earned.

Except crap service rarely gets a crap tip. Look at some of the comments basically vilifying anyone suggesting we shouldn't tip...for the most part, peer pressure keeps people still tipping 95% of the time, so the bad employee never gets that link between bad service and it impacting their tips.

Yes, clients who don't return are in reality 0% tips but your average low quality server isn't that far thinking.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I only tip if I feel the service has gone above what I would normally expect that person to do as part of a job well done.

This is an actual tip. Most of this other examples people are referencing are NOT tips. It's part of the normal wage payment for the worker.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Doubleplay

When I read this thread it's very easy to understand which posters are well traveled and which ones have never been to anywhere else in their life but maybe Mexico or Bahamas where they see Americans as $$ signs. Unfortunately a lot of people here in the US have no idea what good service is and they tip even they get shitty service because they are conditioned to it. This whole tipping culture regardless of the service you get actually killing the service industry in this country,

It gets complicated as you need to define "good service".

Service in Europe is often slow and you have to ask for the check and they will get it when they get around to it...If you are hanging out for the evening at the restaurant, that can be great as there is no pressure to clear the table so they can get turnover. They are happy to let you sit there for a couple hours after desert chatting. If you are on a schedule, it's often a frustrating experience as that's simply not how it's done. If you try to pressure them into going faster, the waitstaff often get cranky. So is that good or bad service? (actually it has little to do with tipping but expectations)

Of course, since the tip comes after all the service has been rendered, unless you go to the same place frequently, the tip has zero impact on the quality of your service.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

This is an actual tip. Most of this other examples people are referencing are NOT tips. It's part of the normal wage payment for the worker.

Protection money would be a better analogy...

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by osprey877

IMO, Tipping is a bad idea that should be discouraged wherever possible. The only place I think it should be used is where the service provider is self employed and provides some service above and beyond what was bargained for, such as a taxi driver, barber, hair dresser, shoe shiner or other micro entrepreneur who goes above and beyond. Tipping employees such as waiters, gas jockeys, and the dozens of other occupations who now seem to expect a tip, is never a good idea.

Tipping creates conflicts and inequities between the staff who are tipped (the $150.00/hr waitress) and those that aren't (the minimum wage kitchen staff), it encourages an under the table cash economy of tax evaders, and creates a serious conflict of interest for the poor employee whose duty to his employer (for example, to report boats whose holding tank pumpouts are not up to standard) is often in conflict with the requirement to keep the customer happy in order to "earn" their tip.

It also demeans the value of the service provided in that the employee has to rely on the charity of his customers to make a decent wage and any exemplary service provided is presumed to be tip trolling.

People think tipping rewards good service, but many studies have shown that in fact most people simply tip a fixed % or dollar amount (see the responses above where the tip amounts have become a fixed sum regardless of the quality of service provided). When was the last time you had a restaurant meal and didn't leave a tip?
And the quality of service does not depend on whether tipping is expected. Store clerks, fast food servers, receptionists etc etc. are not tipped, yet are expected to provide quality service and willingly do so because they take pride in their work and are rewarded by their employers accordingly.

What about the poor waitresses, gas jockey etc. who are just paid minimum wage? Surely they deserve more? Well, of course they do, and their employers would have to pay them what their services are worth, especially now with massive labour shortages, if the current system of minimum wage workers wasn't being enabled by tipping.

As noted above, pumping out is a valuable service and should be paid for accordingly. But pay the service provider, not their employee. Good service by the pump jockey should be a condition of their employment and reflected accordingly in their wages. Tipping simply enables poor wages and an underground economy.
That's my two cents worth.

Absolutely spot on. I'd tip you but...

[ausnp84]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Service in Europe is often slow and you have to ask for the check and they will get it when they get around to it...If you are hanging out for the evening at the restaurant, that can be great as there is no pressure to clear the table so they can get turnover. They are happy to let you sit there for a couple hours after desert chatting. If you are on a schedule, it's often a frustrating experience as that's simply not how it's done. If you try to pressure them into going faster, the waitstaff often get cranky. So is that good or bad service? (actually it has little to do with tipping but expectations)

Haha that’s all about expectations, and getting used to the more relaxed pace of life the Europeans enjoy. Meals aren’t rushed and are instead a social affair, with the food being a side accompaniment to good conversation. Think of it like island time with chic flair and no flip flops😂

A good UK friend of ours came down to Spain and just about had a meltdown on two occasions while waiting for his food and bill to be whizzed out in short order. The rest of the table will never forget his “Gambas!!” meltdown (prawns) and his new nickname duly stuck.

N

[edlepera]

Years ago 1996 was at a pump out there were kids running it for their parents. The guy before was berating the kids not to make a mess don’t spill. The kids were very meticulous, polite and smile. That idiot didn’t tip. We got alongside. Those kids gave us the same great service. We tipped both of them 5 dollars each. Later at the marina restaurant the idiot was there complaining again. We were sitting with one of the marinas owners. We mention the pump out station scene we saw. They owners kicked him out of the marina. Some about his insurance being inadequate. Rudeness does come back on rude people

[Knotical]

One evening while arriving at a new harbor with a narrow channel and a lot of traffic I was being given directions to our slip by a dockhand, the marina staff had already left for the day. Despite me telling him my approximate location in the busy harbor he had no idea where I was and couldn't guide me in, I had to keep circling in the narrow channel until the chatter was heard by a fellow owner near the dockhand - he gave me perfect directions based on nearby prominent structures, different boats, the shape of the channel, etc., I arrived at my slip in 5 mins and my wife and the helpful owner helped secure the boat, he even taught me a different way of tying a spring line. As is customary, I gave the dockhand a ten for "zero" help - should have rather given it to the fellow owner, but glad I didn't as he quickly went back on his gorgeous 42' motor yacht where his friends were enjoying drinks on the aft deck. Yes, I followed the local custom but I also just taught a 16-year-old how to make money without being helpful - that is just not right.