Tiller on a big boat?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by beirutsailor

Of course you can. By walking aroud the wheel and squinting at your mark every time you make a trim change and then regularly after that. It's easier with the tiller and therefore more likely. I resent "specious", after 40 years of single handled sailing.

Well, I can sit under the dodger and see the king spoke and it's turks head.. don't need to walk anywhere. Looking aft at the spoke and looking aft at the tiller seem pretty analogous to me.

And what has 40 years of single handed sailing got to do with this observation? I've been sailing longer than that, single and double handed, but so what?
********
specious
ˈspiːʃəs
adjective
superficially plausible, but actually wrong.
"a specious argument"
*************
Seems pretty applicable to me.


Jim

[Erik de Jong]

I designed Bagheera when I was 16 years old. She is 52' and weighs 66.000 lbs when fully laden in expedition mode ('only' 41.000 in light ship condition).

I did not have enough faith in my 16 year old self when it came to a perfectly balanced rig and keel design and put in a wheel steering system.
It is about the only thing I would probably have done differently when building the boat again. I wish I had a tiller now, but the layout is so different that retrofitting is too much work. But she sails so light and so perfectly balanced that I can steer the boat with the 2' long emergency tiller at all times.

[shane.h012]

Originally Posted by Malabarista

How hard/ expensive would it be to go the other way? I have a 44’ with a wheel. Would love to fit a tiller but not if it is megabucks

Do you not have emergency tiller? If so just remove the wheel maybe....

[Cheechako]

My first offshore cruising boat, a Rawson 30, came with a wheel. I removed the wheel and put a tiller on. This allowed me (early 80's) to:
- just use a tillerpilot, and the windvane
-more room in the cockpit
-and install a Freeman hatch in the cockpit floor for better engine access. (also got rid of the hole the wheel pedestal left!)

[ValiantV]

I loved the tiller on the J22, but also love the wheel on our C30.

One is a sports car, the other - not.

Then again, I'd never convert. Use what you have unless you WANT to mess around. (More)

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by double u

...going astern can be tricky with a tiller....

Forces on a tiller can be big when going astern and also sailing in bad weather/big waves. On traditional boats you use tiller lines, basically a line attached to the cockpit coaming and wrapped 1-3 times around the tiller. You can lock this by holding your hand on top of it. It also gives you a 2* purchase when moving the tiller. On bigger boats, like fishing smacks, you use tackles from the tiller when conditions require (or when backing up)

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I have a 16 tonnes displacement, 42 foot steel pilothouse cutter with a transom-hung, skeg-supported rudder with a tiller head and two hydraulically served wheels. When under wind vane steering, I bypass the hydraulic steering and put on the tiller, which is seven feet long. Not a problem, and I have hand steered for a few hours to get a sense of the forces involved. The answer is, as is so often the case, "both"!

+1 for “both”

I have a first generation catamaran with hydraulic steering and a wheel. Works great under autopilot driving the rams the vast majority of the time and hand steering with the wheel when needed for docking, mooring etc. Sometimes hand steer for fun but because of the hydraulics there isn’t much feel to the rudders.

The second generation boats have twin tillers and seats on either quarter, just for fun - though the primary steering and engine controls are at the wheels.

I have a dream of adding twin tillers like that to our boat - it’s simple enough to bypass the hydraulics and I’ve tried it with the emergency tiller. What a blast, particularly when going a bit faster and using it to break free on swells just that little bit earlier. Ah, takes me back to my Hobie and Laser days. But not comfortable as the emergency tiller has you kneeling behind the aft beam without great sight lines. So adding tillers also means adding a steering chair, which is starting to get more expensive, sigh. But dammit, I love my boat, but it would be that extra bit more fun to be able to really drive her.

Kind of like a sporty car - cruise control and automatic gear changes are nice, but fun is a twisty road and a manual transmission.

[vonderlust]

@Erik de Jong, nice name for an aptly painted boat! You planning to make to the Sitka Cirque performance of The Jungle Book?

@all - to extend this thread: what autopilot are you using for your larger boats with tillers? I've looked at the Raymarine EV-100 & ST2000, but both are for max displacement of 4500-6000kg (lighter than my boat...)

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Actually straddling the tiller is one of the big pluses for me. With the tiller between my legs both hands are free to work the boat or one hand to hang on and the other around a cold beer. Especially helpful in tight quarter systems with one hand for the mainsheet and the other to work the throttle while steering with my legs.

Does take a bit of pre engineering to be sure the tiller isn't too high and result in a high pitched voice.

Yep. I too am often steering with my legs, or with the tiller extension from just about anywhere in the cockpit. (I like being able to sit up close to the companionway and duck for the spray.) I can set the tiller with bungees or the extension jammed against the coaming to let her self-steer too. And with the tiller up out of the way I have an open cockpit to move around in once anchored. Why DO we have wheels on boats anyway?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by vonderlust

@all - to extend this thread: what autopilot are you using for your larger boats with tillers? I've looked at the Raymarine EV-100 & ST2000, but both are for max displacement of 4500-6000kg (lighter than my boat...)

A few years ago the biggest tiller pilot I could find was the Raymarine SPX-GP. It is rated to 16,500# displacement, which is still way under my boat’s 30,000#, but it was the best I could find. So I bought it.

Raymarine SPX/ SPX-5GP Removable Tiller Drive Autopilots

It has served me well so far, although I usually only use it in benign conditions (no/light winds & little seas). Our Aries windvane does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to self-steering. Still, I really appreciate the tiller pilot for the ease and function.

A couple of years after buying the Raymarine pilot I learned about Pelagic. From what I now know, I would/will buy one of these babies if/when my Raymarine gives up the ghost.

https://pelagicautopilot.com

[Erik de Jong]

Originally Posted by vonderlust

@Erik de Jong, nice name for an aptly painted boat! You planning to make to the Sitka Cirque performance of The Jungle Book?

I actually am yes, I've got tickets for Friday I believe. Will you be there?

[hpeer]

The ability of the tiller pilot to work is only partially related to the displacement of the boat. It also relates to the efficiency of the rudder.

On our small boat, 33’ and 16,000lbs I steer it easily with a RM 2000 tiller pilot. How? Well the boat has an auxiliary rudder type wind vane. That is essentially a second rudder that is transom hung, it’s mounted way far back giving it great leverage. On this boat I don’t use the TP to replace the vane input, I drive the second rudder directly through a small tiller. It works. It would never work to drive the main rudder. When I’m motoring or motor sailing I balance the boat with the main rudder, lock it down, then use the TP to steer. Easy peasy.

[vonderlust]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

..A couple of years after buying the Raymarine pilot I learned about Pelagic. From what I now know, I would/will buy one of these babies if/when my Raymarine gives up the ghost... https://pelagicautopilot.com

Good find! It's quite a bit cheaper than the Raymarine as well.

[vonderlust]

Originally Posted by Erik de Jong

I actually am yes, I've got tickets for Friday I believe. Will you be there?

Saturday show for us. We had a good time watching the smaller production at Art Walk, so excited to see the full-blown production this weekend!

I'd be interested to see Bagheera in person - is she at Sitka Harbor?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hpeer

The ability of the tiller pilot to work is only partially related to the displacement of the boat. It also relates to the efficiency of the rudder.

On our small boat, 33’ and 16,000lbs I steer it easily with a RM 2000 tiller pilot. How? Well the boat has an auxiliary rudder type wind vane. That is essentially a second rudder that is transom hung, it’s mounted way far back giving it great leverage. On this boat I don’t use the TP to replace the vane input, I drive the second rudder directly through a small tiller. It works. It would never work to drive the main rudder. When I’m motoring or motor sailing I balance the boat with the main rudder, lock it down, then use the TP to steer. Easy peasy.

Interesting … is your primary rudder also transom hung hpeer? And is the secondary on the trailed edge of the main rudder? That’s how I’ve seen these set ups on other boats.

My main rudder is large, balanced, transom hung. Perhaps this is why I’ve had good success with this undersized tiller pilot.