Ticket for no whistle in dinghy??

[StuM]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Have to question just how much experience you have not just on the water but in life as well. There are multiple laws that reference sunrise and sunset and even more internet sites that provide the time of local sunrise and sunset. Maybe the most widely enforced law is when driving a car your headlights must be on half an hour before sunset (dusk) till half an hour after sunrise (dawn).

As an aside the first time I checked when the official sunset was I was a little shocked at how much daylight seemed to be left. The point being using lights is not so you can see things around you; rather that others can easily see you.

Have to question yours as well

Sunset and dusk are two different things.

There are three official dusks (astronomical, nautical and civil), and the time offset fro sunset for each varies according to location and time of year. In high latitudes in summer you may well have a sunset but no dusk )


And your "half an hour before sunset' is wrong in many jurisdictions.
The most common rules are either "at sunset" or '30 minutes AFTER sunset"

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by DavidMRea

As a Brit, I'm fascinated by this whole thread. ... in your possession (or not) of whistles. That's not even a law here....

Yes, it is. COLREGS rule 33.

(b) A vessel of less than 12 m in length shall not be obliged to carry the sound signalling appliances prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule but if she does not, she shall be provided with some other means of making an efficient sound signal.

This is the same as the USCG language.


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The extent to which rules are monitored or enforced varies widely. Even locally, there are only distinct areas, near a few harbors, where you will see stops. And only at certain times.

[Pelican 2]

I agree with RG Ranger. The words paddle boat and dock sort of give it away. They were just messing around and I would think not likely to stay until dark. Sometimes rules are enforced without sensibility. Rowing to your boat 300m out is a different thing. Paddling 10ft off the dock, and to be caught doing this, suggests playtime do you not think?

[Aethelwulffe]

At least they didn't stand on your neck until you died.
-In any case, do buy duo-tone whistles, attach one to each of your life jackets, and wear those. It is basic LS gear, in any case.
I would have asked him if they had ticketed any water-roach riders for...everything...that day.
"Why my whistle is right here on my jacket of course, just inside the little pouch. Come on over sailor and pull it out for me!"


"Efficient Sound Signal" !=== whistle. Colregs are clear. Ask to see the judge. Supply your argument by screaming at the top of your lungs in the courtroom. All boats are equipped with efficient lung-powered signalling device. :whistle:

[Amapola]

I was stopped and given a warning for no whistle.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by DavidMRea

As a Brit, I'm fascinated by this whole thread. Starting with 'local water police' - what are they? You have them in the US? ...

In the US, there are Federal, state and local jurisdictions which can have their own laws and/or regulations. The Federal laws apply across all US states and are generally enforced by Federal law enforcement officers. Federal officers can only enforce Federal laws. They can't write a citation for a local regulation for example.

State law enforcement officers have enforcement powers across a state, however, generally, like a Federal officer, they would not be able to enforce local regulations. States law enforcement officers are highway patrol, possibly marine patrol if a coastal state, and wildlife officers. In some states, when the highway patrol and wildlife agencies were created, they were limited in which state laws they could enforce. Highway patrol was limited to traffic laws and wildlife officers to game offenses. Eventually, the legislatures granted them the ability to enforce all laws of the state.

Local officers are at the county and city/town level. County law enforcement is in a Sheriff department and they have jurisdiction over the county. They enforce laws of the state and county regulations. Before state wide law enforcement, the county sheriff was the main law enforcement in most/all states. Cities/towns often, but not always, have their own police departments. Police officers enforce state and local laws/regulations but usually can't enforce county regulations.

A city police office generally does not have arrest powers outside of their city. However, since a city resides in a county, the sheriff does have arrest powers in the city. But the sheriff only has arrest powers in their county, not a neighboring county.

To make it a bit more confusing, there are often service agreements with the various agencies so that they can work with each other. This can happen between local, country, state and Federal levels but is usually a special circumstances situation.

Does the above make it easy to understand?

So what does this have to do with "water cops?" Water cops is being used to describe any law enforcement officer that is enforcing laws on the water. These officers can be Federal, state, county or city.

This has been going on for years. Nothing new here in spite of what you read. US law enforcement started "militarizing" in the 70s with SWAT teams. Water cops existed at least in the 1980's. They were out and about in South Florida back then. My dad and I pulled into Miami on his sailboat to get a repair done. We were docked at night when we heard very loud foot steps running down the dock. It got our attention since South Florida at that time was awash with drugs and the violence that followed. Two officers jumped on the sailboat next to us, which pissed off the owner, to fend off THEIR boat which had broken loose as the tide went out. Their boat almost hit us but missed thankfully. The officers were with the Miami Beach PD as I remember it.

I don't know if it still happens, but in the past, the US government paid state and local agencies money to perform water patrols.

Later,
Dan

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

1/159th?

We were 2/3. I think they were 1/3
Hunter Army Airfield.

[Lihuedooley77]

Yep,

A whistle is a good plan, as is a flare up light for night operations, and allowing other vessels to see you. And you spot empty moorings and mooring lines to avoid banging into to mooring ball or wrapping a mooring line around your dink prop.


Also, another problem can rise up with the over enjoying of booze or drugs that can result in fast movers , collision , damage, injuries and possible deaths.
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Distress signals : Continuous blast on the whistle, fog horn, etc.
" I am in distress "
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Very true :...waving does absolutely no good as the people on the other boat will just wave back and keep on their course and have another rum .

Try to stand erect, facing the other boat or person, arms at your sides, and with a slight bend at the elbow raise your arms touching hands high overhead.

Continue and repeat this known Distress Signal, and usually the people seeing that very different movement will realized that something is amiss and come to check
on you. Even if they do not know that it is a distress signal, they will figure something is wrong. As they approach you can let them know you need assistance and what your problem is.

If you just wave you will only get a friendly wave back.

It is a good plan to practice good seamanship, safety at sea, and follow the regs, and read CG-169 .
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FLARE UP LIGHT:

I cannot remember the LOA ( length over all ) but a flare up light, ( flash light ) will suffice for dinks up to a certain footage, after that navigation lights may be required. Regardless have a good flash light

Other ideas : Make sure the fuel is topped off, have a set of oars in case of engine failure of any kind. Proper size life jackets for everyone on board,.

Nothing to do with the harbor patrols , or coasties :

Also, we display our personal choice of pennants and flags on the flag halyard of our vessel. HAWAII , CALIF, and a BVI Happy Hour Pirate Flag. Why is that ?

Well, in a crowded anchorage with many, many other vessels , it helps us to find our own boat among the hundred or so moored vessels . Those bareboat fleets, all look pretty much the same. We also take note of a rough bearing from the bar guest dock, or floating anchored bar and restaurant. Those specific to us flags really help at night as well.

We also display our anchor light, at night, and maybe the cockpit light, to alert passing vessels, and to help when climbing back on board .

Just a couple of tips to help us keep life easy and safe .

[MVDarlin]

I have an electric horn on the skiff. Will this suffice?

[Hunky Dory]

Have a friend who had a fishing rod under his dingy seat, he was stopped on a routine check and given a ticket for not having his fishing license on him.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by DavidMRea

As a Brit, I'm fascinated by this whole thread. Starting with 'local water police' - what are they? You have them in the US?

As noted upthread, yes, many kinds.


Around here most of them are sheriff's deputies, and are mostly interested in harassing party boats. That's the pontoon boats with a dozen people in various stages of inebriation. I don't think it helps much.

There are also "conservation officers" who are mainly supposed to be enforcing the fish and game laws but who write boating tickets when they are bored.

From time to time, we get somebody arguing there ought to be a law against sailing a yacht under the influence... but there's no way of enforcing any sort of laws except - after the event and during a trial.

Some jurisdictions in the U.S. and Canada outlaw sailing under the influence, and the federal government does for areas under federal jurisdiction. As far as I can determine, operating a motorboat under the influence is a crime anywhere in the USA.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Hunky Dory

Have a friend who had a fishing rod under his dingy seat, he was stopped on a routine check and given a ticket for not having his fishing license on him.

Yup. I was stopped once like that and I was fishing. The permit is for the main boat, not the dinghy, but it does include a permit for the owner and I was close enough to point to the main boat, which had the sticker. That satisfied him. There after I kept a copy in the dinghy, along with the registration and my daughters operator's permit.


No problem. You keep some papers in your car, and a dinghy is your family car when cruising.

[Capt Doug]

I was told by the local water police that I had to have the paper registration for my dinghy.

[le chat beaute]

Such a pain in the ass to have to know the rules before you get behind the wheel of a car or tiller of a dinghy. The fact I can pay for it should be enough . Don’t need no stinking rules.

[hirondeller]

From post #26 ; "No, they do not have to have any reason for stopping you. The last time I was anchored, fishing."

Actually...... In Florida they recently changed the law to "They need probable cause to board you". This applies to Local & State FL agencies, just like the 'land cops'. The Coast Guard is still exempt, we will need a Federal Regulation for that to change. Why did something this obvious take so long? Apparently, water cops harassed a State Congressmen out with his family and 'PRESTO', the law was changed.


A TICKET FOR NO WHISTLE ON A DINGHY!!! What drives this unseemly behavior? In some localities cops are encouraged to write tickets for most of their stops in order to fill local coffers with fines and... JUSTIFY THEIR EXISTENCE. They can also point to large numbers of 'safety' violations on boats! Let Floridians note whether per capita boating accidents and deaths in Florida increase now that the water cops license to board 'at will' has been crimped. What if the boating accident/death rate does not increase? Might we then consider experimenting with fewer water cops and save some tax dollars?


When I was seventeen I was cited in Miami for 'No life preserver' in an inflatable water toy 100 yards from a public beach. I had attached a 1/4hp electric trolling motor with a power output equal to that of a small electric drill and this made me the operator of.... 'A motorized vehicle', subject to all the rules appertaining thereto'.... The water cop was obnoxious, overly officious, and did not take into account the relatively safe and unusual circumstances. When he left I banged up my knee exiting his boat in a rising chop, looking back at it, his STOP was very unsafe given the differential heights of our vessels (I limped for a week). He then roared off after a canoe with a trolling motor. What a jerk. Doubtless, in his tiny mind, the canoe was potentially being operated by Bonnie & Clyde.


I have heard many horror stories of 'water cops' being unreasonable, obnoxious, petty, overly officious etc. Stand up for your rights when water cops request to board you, know your local laws. Politely, but firmly, ask the purpose of the visit; turn them down if they lack probable cause and video them if they insist on boarding. Send the video to their supervisor, copy the mayor or county commissioner. Don't cower, let freedom ring!!!