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Old 20-02-2020, 07:48   #1
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Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

I saw a larger Reinke online that looked like it would be a great go-anywhere adventure vessel, and it had me wondering about how the twin keels would behave in the open ocean.

I've read through a number of threads about twin keel sailboats, and they all seem to be limited to discussing boats less than 40' in length, mostly in the UK for coastal sailing.

The obvious consensus is that they suffer in upwind performance and that they are slower. But how would this arrangement do in downwind sailing on long passages, surfing down waves? Would it increase the risk of broaching? Or would the twin keels stabilize the boat's yaw?
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Old 20-02-2020, 08:14   #2
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

Twin keels pick up twice as much sea junk
Twin rudders pickup twice as much sea junk

Why volunteer for double trouble ?
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Old 21-02-2020, 08:25   #3
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

Plenty of these have crossed oceans and stayed the right way up. Avoid the lift keel which has a reputation for falling off when you least expect it.

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Old 21-02-2020, 09:00   #4
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

All boats are compromises. You buy the right boat for YOU by making the right compromises.

Twin keels trade off sailing performance and complexity for the ability to take to ground on low tide. If you sail in an area where you NEED to take to ground regularly, it’s a very useful, maybe necessary, compromise.

I can think of no reason anyone else should have one. All downsides, no other upsides. Can they sail across oceans? Sure. But they offer no advantages to doing so, only drawbacks.

Note for “adventure” cruising, bilge keelers do not take well to rocky bottoms, just flat sand and mud.
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Old 21-02-2020, 11:07   #5
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

Twin keels might pick up more sea junk (only one rudder), but there's one other advantage. You can park it on a beach and give it a scrape - no need to lift out.
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Old 21-02-2020, 13:55   #6
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

2 keels + 1 unprotected prop + rudder
= collecting a LOT more junk.

and with that flat bottom (especially upfront) you'll have a lot of "fun" going into short waves - in term of noise as well as getting slowed down (no cutting through the waves - unless heeled ...)
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Old 21-02-2020, 14:35   #7
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

I much time for Roger Taylor who has repeatedly sailed north to the Arctic for nearly two decades. His choice? small twin keeled yachts. His reason, in bad weather they slide sideways down the waves rather than tripping on a deep keel. Perhaps he has something in this.

I have a 31ft twin keeled yacht. Under sail I doubt you could tell me whether it was a fin or twin keeled yacht. The boat achieves the same speed as its fin keeled cousins, the pointing ability to windward if any; only a couple of degrees less. The condition of sails, hull bottom and crew sailing ability will have a much greater effect.

This assumes we are discussing the later aero foiled keels which tend to be splayed and toe'd in to assist with lift to windward. The yachts behaviour will therefore be similar to a fin keeled yacht. This will be different from a long keeled yacht loved by US sailors. That isn't to say its a problem or not the right choice, just different. Heeled of course, one keel will be vertical straight down the other to windward with a huge righting moment. Ours are 820 kgs each.

There is a slight risk to picking up a lobster pot since a long keel or fin may help divert the line away from the prop. However, thankfully despite 12 years of coastal sailing including running over a few pot markers it hasn't been a problem. The rope cutter adds extra insurance. We don't seem to pick up any weed or if we do it is quickly washed away with the angle on the leading edges of the keels.

If you are going "off piste" the ability to dry out on a beach or be lifted without the need for stands and frames could be useful to you in remote areas. Will she tip over if ashore in a Hurricane? I don't know, interesting question.

As you say they tend to be 36ft or less, but manufacturers build what the market demands and therefore what sells. Today that is deep fins or cats. Interestingly there weren't any long keeled yachts either on display at the Southampton Boatshow last September.

So I certainly wouldn't rule it out. Do you have a link to the yacht?

Oh and as HighAndDry pointed out there are those super RM yachts which I would have in a flash if I could afford one.
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Old 21-02-2020, 14:43   #8
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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Originally Posted by DavidMRea View Post
Twin keels might pick up more sea junk (only one rudder), but there's one other advantage. You can park it on a beach and give it a scrape - no need to lift out.
If you ground out a twin keel you will never be able to heel her over and escape

The ability to dry out with twin keels is a con job

As you dry out a boat , tide falling .. the boat pounds in the swell. When you repeat the sequence ....tide rising ...you get to pound the **** out of your boat all over again
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Old 21-02-2020, 22:03   #9
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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If you ground out a twin keel you will never be able to heel her over and escape

The ability to dry out with twin keels is a con job

As you dry out a boat , tide falling .. the boat pounds in the swell. When you repeat the sequence ....tide rising ...you get to pound the **** out of your boat all over again
The first point would depend - if you were motoring and therefore not heeled over you are correct. On the other hand if you were sailing at any heeled angle you would draw less when upright with the pressure off the rig.

As to the "con job" it is meant for quiet bays not rougher areas.
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Old 21-02-2020, 22:11   #10
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

I was looking at a listing for a really nicely finished large reinke in Poland, but I was scared off by the Deutz engines. It seems to me that it's really limiting to an otherwise great go anywhere adventure boat to put what must be custom marinized and custom water cooled converted engines in it, that as far as Google tells me, have zero presence in the sailboat world.
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Old 22-02-2020, 00:22   #11
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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If you ground out a twin keel you will never be able to heel her over and escape

The ability to dry out with twin keels is a con job
I see

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Old 22-02-2020, 01:01   #12
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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I was looking at a listing for a really nicely finished large reinke in Poland, but I was scared off by the Deutz engines. It seems to me that it's really limiting to an otherwise great go anywhere adventure boat to put what must be custom marinized and custom water cooled converted engines in it, that as far as Google tells me, have zero presence in the sailboat world.
I think you have a point and why is it for sale? it's only 2 years old. Not sure about twin props on a yacht either.

If you were after a Aluminium yacht I still think El Rapid is interesting and circumnavigated once already. That must go like stink I just don't have 80k Euros or I would be ringing for a taxi to the airport.

https://larochelle.boatshed.com/cust...at-243625.html
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Old 22-02-2020, 02:39   #13
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

Around the south English coast with out large tidal ranges and estuaries a twin keel yacht makes perfect economical sense. Very convenient to be able to dry out and do your maintenance between tides. Iíve never owned one but every month when the bill for the marina berth comes in I wish I did.
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Old 22-02-2020, 02:47   #14
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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The first point would depend - if you were motoring and therefore not heeled over you are correct. On the other hand if you were sailing at any heeled angle you would draw less when upright with the pressure off the rig.

As to the "con job" it is meant for quiet bays not rougher areas.
It would be very unusual to find a place in the world were the water level doesnít move from wave action
The boat I sail draws 4 meters
Itís a fact of life that many times each year , when tied alongside in port I ground out
If the bottom is hard , The pounding will be enough to dislodge headliners and cause hot light builds to fail
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Old 22-02-2020, 03:04   #15
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Re: Thoughts on a large twin keel for world cruising

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It would be very unusual to find a place in the world were the water level doesnít move from wave action
The European Atlantic Coast involving a dozen countries is one such area. Thousands of estuaries, sheltered bays and quaint old harbours built over the last 2000 years give us ideal locations to dry out. They are literally every few miles.

If I owned a fin, then I would carry drying legs. The great thing is with everyone buying fin keeled yachts in Europe, these little hideaways are empty

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