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Doodles · 18-06-2010, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningFish

The OP's list had them leaving out an electric bilge pump/automatic switch. I don't understand - what am I missing?

This was one of the things Hal Roth didn't like. He had a couple large manual bilge pumps, and a way to use the engine as a third bilge pump. As for the automatic switch, they often get fouled and stick open running down the battery. Plus, can give a false sense of security.

**Pete7** · 18-06-2010, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodles

This was one of the things Hal Roth didn't like. He had a couple large manual bilge pumps, and a way to use the engine as a third bilge pump. As for the automatic switch, they often get fouled and stick open running down the battery. Plus, can give a false sense of security.

Yes, but, the ability to throw a switch and have an electric pump get to work whilst you fathom out were the water is coming from would be high on my list. Also whilst I am pumping a manual pump who is steering?

Dodgers yes we have them because some of us live in cooler waters so keep sthe spray and cold wind out of the cockpit. The small dinghy stored verticaly on the transom is used to fill that gap too. Bimmini, brilliant bit of kit, bought one (cheap fold up type) to keep the scorching sun we so often have in the UK off us

actually we use it more to keep the rain away out of the cockpit when in harbour which then means the cockpit can be used as an extra room. An extra large white plastic sheet acts as a tent boom to keep the sun off the deck.

Some of the things on that list are hardly expensive, unlikely to seriously or suddenly fail and would make life more pleasant. Anyone can be uncomfortable. How do folk live at anchor without hot water? well you can, but washing up and showers surely much nicer with it.

A watermaker and SSB should depend on were you intend to cruise. There is no shortage of water in Europe and since you probably going to be near the coast other comms readily available.

Pete

Doodles · 18-06-2010, 02:47

Our current boat doesn't have a LifeSling, something I was thinking of adding since we have always had one on our previous boats. But after reading Beth & Evans' comments on why they chose not to have one I'm re-thinking the idea:

Quote:

Lifesling/crew overboard equipment. Recovering an overboard crew member from a fully crewed boat in relatively flat conditions simply cannot be compared to recovering someone from a double-handed boat in typical offshore wind and waves. If the on-watch crewmember goes overboard at night with the off-watch asleep in their bunk, several hours could pass before the crew overboard situation is even discovered. When sailing offshore double- handed therefore, each crew member needs to stay focused on not falling off in the first place. In addition to always having “one hand for the boat and one hand for ourselves,” we attach ourselves to the boat mechanically with jacklines, padeyes, harnesses and tethers when in heavy weather or alone on deck.

fishwife · 18-06-2010, 03:36

This is more for those still at the dreaming and planning stage.

Having lived and cruised in a minimalist boat for many years I'm at the point where comfort and amenities are important. Today there isn't much I'd leave off the boat but there is something I'd definitely make sure the boat had. If you are planning on cruising where the sun shines most days, then before you buy your boat, consider the hull colour. I've had dark blue and green hulled sail boats. Even with good ventilation including wind scoops, darker hulled boats get very warm (hot) below. Forget the aesthetics, go white for your hull and deck

P.

Mariness · 18-06-2010, 03:43

Could live quite happily without a microwave. I think they are a space and power drain, in a situation where both are at a premium. But hubby thinks he'll want one, so there might be one anyway. Freezer would be a nice bonus (also probably a big power-suck), but there are a bunch of things I wouldn't give up just to fit one in. The coldest part at the bottom of the fridge is probably good enough for us. Oh - definitely will not have a front-opening fridge! They seem to be very popular on the boat-show boats, but as hubby puts it, "They let all the cold fall out!" I can't help but think, open the door at the wrong moment, and the food will too.
Wouldn't have thought hull color would make much difference, there's one to think about.

**Pete7** · 18-06-2010, 03:46

Whilst I agree with the quote, having a life sling that can be chucked over board quickly surely is worth carrying, especially if it has a pole and flag. Just look at how small a person is once they go into the water. Most people float with just their nose out of the water. Sailing along at speed within seconds they are gone. Short handed you don't have the manpower for a dedicated crewman to constantly point at the MOB.

I have spent 20 years as a diver. We have for many years insisted that every diver carries a surface marker bouy with them, not just one per pair. An SMB is a 5 foot fluorescent inflatable tube which can be seen over large distances at sea. Makes life so much easier for the supervisor to easily see divers on the surface.

Pete

Get-a-Life · 18-06-2010, 04:30

We have deliberately left off the 42" plasma TV, air con, motorised roller door, expresso/cappuccino machine (having second thoughts on this one), dishwasher, ice maker, front load washing machine and Karcher.

Life can be hell sometimes.

Sabbatical II · 18-06-2010, 05:19

We've chosen to leave off many things which commonly fail if a simpler system will do the job satisfactorily. I don't want to be a cruiser fixing stuff any more than I have to.

No watermaker - 1100 litres tankage & deck infills instead
No air conditioning & therefore no need for a generator
No electric winches - sent wife to the gym
No keel bolts - integral keel
No TV screens - it reminds me too much of the rat race
No A/C power - it's heaps safer anyway
No salesman's commission - buying direct from builder
No import costs - boatbuilder lives next door (almost)
No inverter - 12v microwave & car chargers for laptop
No 2nd head - saves on toilet paper
No money left - and it's only half way done

Despite all that the boat doesn't have, it will be very comfortable.

Greg

**Pete7** · 18-06-2010, 05:24

Spinnaker

Kefaa · 18-06-2010, 05:43

I have to agree with most of things they gave up on their list. Some are creature comforts, I would be unwilling to do so, but I understand why they want to remove them.

That said, they have made a serious mistake.
Lifesling/crew overboard equipment...When sailing offshore double-handed therefore, each crew member needs to stay focused on not falling off in the first place.
People die from this kind of misplaced logic. Its sounds nostalgic . That we care for ourselves - that we "keep one hand for the ship and one for the crew. Some will even think - "well, that was their choice." But it's not. They are making that choice for everyone they ever have on board.

It is foolish. You have recovery equipment because people have "accidents." The very example they use, two people on a transoceanic sail, are those most likely to suffer from fatigue which leads to accidents. A jib line caught - just out of reach. A sail jammed. Or something small like a wave as you lean over - for just a second. The chances of most people being able to lift an injured or exhausted crew member aboard a sailboat - alone - is almost zero.

If you are going to pass on taking something with you - let it be something other than basic life saving equipment.

pressuredrop · 18-06-2010, 05:56

there seems to be a common thread here...

no refrigerator
no dodger (do have a pilot house w/side steering)
will convert the inside steering from hydraulic to cables that i can clip on the ends of the tiller
no 110v, no shorepower (yes 1 small inverter)
no electric windlass (manual)
no pressure water (though once i increase the fresh water tankage it will be very tempting to add a little shower faucet)
no hot water
no lift raft (my rowing dinghy will be my life raft, thank you Lin and Larry for this common sense idea i may have never thought of on my own!)

more personal choices
no electric autopilot (have a monitor windvane)
no fancy masthead instruments
no rope clutches (winches and cleats thank you)
no internal combustion engine (48v electric drive, because its the closest thing to sailing w/o an engine, and i have this fantasy about using the regen from the motor on passages to power a homemade water maker, and using the aforementioned shower all day long

)

dcstrng · 18-06-2010, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yes, but... Anyone can be uncomfortable. How do folk live at anchor without hot water? well you can, but washing up and showers surely much nicer with it.

A watermaker and SSB should depend on were you intend to cruise...

I think this is really the quandary in a general way – at what point does the maintenance/reliability of a doohickey out way its convenience, or visa-versa… I suspect each skipper mixes it somewhat differently based on their penchants, cruising area and requirements… I am astonished, however, to read stories of folks who take off for the wild blue yonder only to have some “convenience” breakdown and then wile away days/weeks/months in port awaiting a part to be shipped… when it gets to that point, I have to wonder…

I like as many creature comforts as the next guy, probably more than most (given my slovenly ways..), but not to the point of tying my hands – or requiring unneeded upkeep – I’ve not had an electronic depthfinder or knotmeter in over thirty years or anything other than hanked-on sails, and am “surgically removing” any exterior wood that requires ritualistic oiling/varnishing, but have recently joined the GPS generation (albeit with a handheld), for instance… on the other hand those are just personal quirks and proclivities, and starkness can become just as much of an obsessing affliction -- too acetic environment devoid of a few pleasurable gizmos probably alienates half the crew (although, depending on the crew, that may not be an altogether bad thing…)