The Way to Treat Pirates

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

Nope. I want that escort to destroy the Somalian's ability to go to sea. Drone strike the pirate leaders and land bases, take aggressive action against the mother ships, and create laws that allow yachts and commercial vessels to arm themselves sufficiently to repel an attack.

My point is, that sending the Somalians a few bags of seed corn and a few medical supplies is not going to cause them to walk away from a billion dollar pirate enterprise. Only armed conflict can end this.

You really do have a simplistic view of the problem don't you. Have you done any serious reading about the issues involved and why this has been such a difficult problem? It sounds like you expect the US Military to go in guns blazing and solve the problem. This isn't Grenada which is the last time the US came out on the winning end of a conflict I believe.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sparau

how could you create some kind order and safety out of such chaos?

Historically, I believe it is done by the use of force.

[captain58sailin]

It would be interesting to know how the " Kill them all and let God sort it out." posters would respond if they found themselves in the very situation that the Somoli's are in right now.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by virginia boy

I hardly think that accusing posters who advocate a call to arms of being childish is accurate or appropriate. I assume your perspective the only adult one?

You will note that I was referring to the arrival of other opinions on this thread besides the impractical kill em all stuff, clearly meaning that I believe others also hold an "adult" perspective, just not those who believe they will always know who the bad guys are in enough time to react.



You yourself admitted humanitarian aid has failed due to an unstable political climate, and that the "powers that be" will ensure it stays that way. So what would you have us do? Sit idly by and let the pirates have their way with us as we continue blithely on with a failed strategy?


Don't go to Somalia! Simple! Its a war zone! Would you act all surprised if you took an RV to afghanistan and got abducted? Apparently so since you think its so shocking that you cant take your sailboat to somalia without risk of the same.

I feel as sympathetic towards the Somalians as anyone, but if one were to attack my family, and I had the capability, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to blow his ass away. I see no reason why a ship's crew should be forced to offer themselves up as a hostage because a few highly vocal, left wing radicals naively believe that if the somalians just had enough to eat, they would live in this world with peace and loving kindness. Nice thought but not very realistic.


I would guess ours is probably the most heavily armed boat on this forum, and I too would not hesitate to defend my family if necessary. But the fact of the matter is that maintaining that state of armament outside of the US is impractical at best, most "pirates" appear to be inocent fisherman coming to ask for water or cigarrettes, and you just don't know until its too late. You could be boarded at night, or a thousand other scenarios wherein you will be outnubered and outgunned, making all this silly rambo talk just that. I have to believe that anyone who reccomends this sort of thing hasnt been out there, its just not going to help you in the vast majority of situations, and is much more likely to cause you serious legal trouble than save your life. I love the3 guys who go on and on about there .50 cal rifle and how they will take out the engine at a mile. Clearly they have no idea what they are talking about, you would shoot at a whole lot of innocent fishermen that way, though I'msure they'd never hit a damn thing from a moving deck at anything like those ranges.

While I can see how taking a pacifist approach to piracy would save a few pirate lives (at the expense of a few of our own lives), and your political correctness is certainly praiseworthy although a bit idealistic, I think it's high time we take a more pragmatic approach. I want and expect my government to ensure safe passage for all. If that means we hurt the Somalis even more than we have already, then so be it. I'm sure we'd have no trouble completely destroying their ability to go to sea.

Nobody is recommending a "pacifist approach", just that you dont go there. Not going there will cost us no lives at all. Doyou want and expect your government to secure safe passage through all countries in the world? Sure would be nice, but far from practical.

Your claim that that shooting a few pirates as a solution is nuts, is nuts itself! Of course it would make a difference. Shoot every and any pirate-like boat that comes within 1000 feet of a ship and in very short order, word gets around, no one dares approach a ship, and PRESTO! piracy ceases to exist.

You are seriously calling for shooting at any random boat in the western indian ocean or the red sea on the principle that they might be pirates? Do you have any idea how many vessels that would involve firing on? Someone who is not a pirate would almost certainly take the time to come and rub you out if you did this, like the navies of all the nearby small countries whos fishermen you would be shooting at all the time. Advocating firing on potentially innocent people without first ascertaining FOR CERTAIN whether they are enemy combatants is against all ROE's, cowardly, and almost certainly illegal. Do not encourage people to randomly fire on others, even in somalia. Id be pissed if you fired on my boat because it looks like a pirate to you. This is why we have a military, because civilian yahoos cannot be entrusted to make these decisions.

Maybe a combination of humanitarian aid, and wholesale slaughter of pirates would be incentive enough for them to stop their pirating ways? Either way, humanitarian aid by itself won't do a damn thing.

Wholsale slaughter of pirates? How do you know who the pirates are until they start pirating? I'm allfor a larger naval pesence in the region to fight piracy, but you have to catch them in the act. This precludes wholesale slaughter, unless like Bob you would like to just nuke the whole country and damn the women and children. I think an incentive for them to stop might be a working alternative to acquiring a living wage for their families, especially in a country with enough oil to make them all rich without working like the Saudis. After all going to sea to be a somali pirate must suck pretty bad, especially since they often dont get much of the money. Id think a safe job making a living wage would be pretty appealing.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Historically, I believe it is done by the use of force.

In this occasion it's quite the opposite. The use of force has destroyed order and safety..

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Historically, I believe it is done by the use of force.

Examples, please?

[captain58sailin]

Where is Genghis Khan when you need him?

[Bill Lee]

Are all Somalians pirates? If not, then in advocating the blow 'em all ski high approach you'd be killing some desperate and poor innocents. I have no difficulty in pirates being shot. It's clear that they're pirates when they're approaching vessels with weapons. Otherwise, closer to shore or on land it may be difficult to tell pirates from non-pirates. Force is rarely a cure-all albeit absolutely necessary in measured doses. Maybe what's needed is a measured response involving financial aid, food aid, policing aid, governmental and infrastructure aid all the while shooting known pirates who are committing piracy. Ya gotta have some shootin' right???
Cheers,
Bill

[virginia boy]

Originally Posted by Bill Lee

Maybe what's needed is a measured response involving financial aid, food aid, policing aid, governmental and infrastructure aid all the while shooting known pirates who are committing piracy. Ya gotta have some shootin' right???
Cheers,
Bill

I think this just about sums it up.

[Aussiesuede]

Originally Posted by Blue Crab

Life continues out of balance in those regions of Africa where the people have outbred their physical resources.

Ahem, we too continue to outbreed our physical resources. Pretty much every country on the planet does so. That's why we go to that part of the world to take some of the resources we lack. Learning to live within our means with what we naturally have available to us, and breeding within the limits of those resources which we can provide for ourselves, would go a long way towards solving the problem. But it would be hypocritical to ask others to do what we ourselves are clearly unwilling to do. Each of the parties has something to trade. We desire that regions oil. Trading our infrastructure capability seems like a pretty fair trade. Tens of billions in aid for trillions in oil, I'll take our side of that bargain any day, pirates or no pirates.

[VirtualVagabond]

Originally Posted by Doodles

I'm with you on the warlord/godfather part, but the rest sounds like you been reading too many conspiracy novels.

No conspiracies Doodles. Just common sense... which is kinda rare

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by minaret

Examples, please?

Rome.

[Therapy]

Permanent Mission of the Somali Republic to the United Nations - Permanent Mission of the Somali Republic to the United Nations

Since it supposedly all started out because the rest of the world took their fish then the answer is simple and cheap.

Somalia is a member of the UN and so it is easy for them to gain an audience that has a history of listening to the underdog.

After that the UN simply has to provide, from other member countries, an amount of fish equal to the amount that they can no longer catch.

Problem solved.
Cheap (comparatively)

The fisherman don't even need to fish in order to land them. All they have to do is take their boats out to the UN ships, load the fish and head for shore.

Too simple.

IF..........those folks blaming others overfishing Somali waters aren't lying.

The ONLY problem is determining what the catch was before. I suspect when interviewed to put the numbers on the clipboard, the Somali fisherman will inflate it by a factor of 10.

After all, they are fishermen, right?

[ocean_groover]

If everyone always carried a gun there would be no crime.

The fat greedy people have a God-given right to be fat and greedy. Some fat greedy bloke with shiny teeth says so.

Extra-judicial drone strikes are the best way to shower democracy on the subhumans, the ones born on the wrong side, who don't deserve to be fat and greedy too.

[hummingway]

A couple of deep breathes everyone. You know I love to shut down pirate threads and it may be time for this one but just in case let's take a shot at remembering the CF mantra, "Be nice!" and show respect for other members, leave aside politics, religion. guns and anchors except where respectfully applied to the subject at hand.

Thanks.